India's major sporting achievements in 2005

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Postby Sandeep » Sun Feb 20, 2005 5:35 am

PKBASU, it is good to celebrate world class achievements. But we have to set a standard and not vague rule like world top 3 or so. If it is world top 3, exclude Juniors from it. There is lot of difference between Junior performances and seniors. Seniors is at much higher level. Qualiftying for F1 is much higher achievement than, to be in top3 of F3. And If we place narain for being in top3 in F3 and not for qualifying for F1, then there is some thing wrong with the rules. Winning a WTA title in singles is much higher achievement than winning junior doubles at wimbledon. We need a standard. I think in we should change rule to winning a title at any event. What about cricket according to your rule? If there is no world cup how will you place Indian cricket team for its achievements in this thread?

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India's major sporting achievements in 2005

Postby BSharma » Sun Feb 20, 2005 5:41 am

What about cricket according to your rule? If there is no world cup how will you place Indian cricket team for its achievements in this thread?


If the Indian cricket team is ranked in the top three in the world then it gets into this list and it did.

We have threads in this forum to celebrate the victories of many players if they do not make the top three criteria.

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Postby Sandeep » Sun Feb 20, 2005 5:51 am

It is not whether we celebrate it in some thread or not, but what is the standard? We can't compare some serena with Junior world no.1 and enjoy in the same way for their achievements. And who decides whether Indian cricket team is in top3 or not? Do you go by ICC ratings?

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India's major sporting achievements in 2005

Postby BSharma » Sun Feb 20, 2005 6:00 am

And who decides whether Indian cricket team is in top3 or not? Do you go by ICC ratings?


PKB, Dhruv and Kumar are the resident experts on this subject. :D We have had extensive discussions about it in the past. Check out the cricket thread some day when you have free time. Just don't get these three started again. :wink:

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Postby Sandeep » Sun Feb 20, 2005 6:04 am

Bsharma, let us have poll on how to decide what sports should be placed in this thread. It is not at all fair not to place narain karthikeyan and sania in thhis thread. Both have done something which no other Indian did. I think we ave to rephrase the rules.

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India's major sporting achievements in 2005

Postby PKBasu » Tue Feb 22, 2005 12:13 am

Sandeep, we have threads in their respective sports for Sania and Narain, where we can all recognise the fact that they have achieved things that no Indian has ever achieved before in their sport.
But this thread is for a specific purpose, and I would request you to look at the 2003 and 2004 threads to see some of the truly world-class achievements that have been celebrated here. When Sania won the junior Wimbledon doubles, it was celebrated in the "major achievements" thread.
We cannot and should not dilute our criteria because we are excited about some less-than-world-class achievement.
If Sania makes the semi-final of a Slam, I think she will have qualified to be included here. Otherwise not.
We include junior achievements when they are demonstrably in world-class events. (Once a junior grows up, however, they need to achieve top-3 status at the senior/open level to merit mention in this thread).
We defined "major sporting achievements" quite clearly in 2003 (a year in which there really were some terrific achievements by Indian sportspersons) and we should stick with our definition.

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Postby Sandeep » Tue Feb 22, 2005 12:50 am

I commend you r decision to stick to the rules. But, I still didn't undestand how wimbledon Junior doubles title is world class performance. No one takes it into consideration also. Which sports award take Junior achievements as world class and celebrate them?

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India's major sporting achievements in 2005

Postby Kumar » Tue Feb 22, 2005 12:57 am

I am going to get on wrong sides of all the parties here, :wink:
If the Indian cricket team is ranked in the top three in the world then it gets into this list and it did


In a team of 10 test playing nations, This requirements sounds too much watered down to be considered as Major Sporting Achievement in any year...

But actually I side with Sandeep regd. Sania's and Narain's eligibility for the "Major Sporting Achievements"...

PKB's Quote,
And beating Pakistan in Pakistan in a test series also qualifies as one of the sporting achievements of 2004 -- especially as it included India's first and second test wins in Pakistan ever (i.e., in fifty years of trying).


If beating a so-so pakistan team is considered a major achievement, (especially if it is the first test win in pakistan) Why shouldn't Sania's win be considered as a major achievement..

Being the first player to win anything in a year does not mean a lot since those achievements will be duplicated by others as the months go by. Winning in Hyderabad does not make Sania a top 3 tennis player in the world (or a top 25 player).

Actually I disagree with this quote too.. Every body knows who Edmund Hillary and Tenzing Norgay is ... But how many people know the subsequent climbers to the Peak of Mt. Everest... So I feel we should celeberate this achievement of Sania even though it came in Tier IV Event, only becoz she is the first Indian woman to do it...

If most of the forum members feel that only the world class achievements belong here, Then we need a separate thread which will celeberate the pioneering achievements of our Athletes...And rename this thread as 'India's World Class Achievements in 2005'..
Last edited by Kumar on Tue Feb 22, 2005 2:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Sandeep » Tue Feb 22, 2005 1:04 am

WOW Kumar, for the first time may be I am agreeing with you. PKBASU'S point is that we have threads to celebrate their achievements. But when some one does some thing special than the usual stuff, we need to recognize it in special manner. What Sania or Narain did is something really special. If you think that Sania's achievements can't be placed here, then as kumar suggested we have to start a thread on pioneering achievements of India.

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India's major sporting achievements in 2005

Postby BSharma » Tue Feb 22, 2005 2:53 am

Kumar wrote:
Every body knows who Edmund Hillary and Tenzing Norgay is ... But how many people know the subsequent climbers to the Peak of Mt. Everest... So I feel we should celeberate this achievement of Sania even though it came in Tier IV Event, only becoz she is the first Indian woman to do it...


If winning a WTA Tier IV Event is equivalent to climbing the Mount Everest then Sania deserves her place in this thread. What will we call winning a Grand Slam singles then?

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India's major sporting achievements in 2005

Postby BSharma » Tue Feb 22, 2005 3:18 am

This thread has evolved over the past year or so. There are names in the "earlier times" that should not have been included, and now we are in the process of refining the criteria.

I agree with PKB that this thread should include the names of those athletes who have achieved world class success at the highest levels (e.g., top three, etc).

PKB and I are not the gatekeeper of this thread. :D What we need is a better definition of what qualifies to get a name in this thread.

We are confusing first time achievements by Indians (e.g., Sania, Narain) with world class performances. Both Sania and Narain have done something that no other Indian has done but their performances were not amongst the top in the world.

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Postby Sandeep » Tue Feb 22, 2005 3:43 am

But, I guess we are here to celebrate Indian achievements irrespective of how they fare when compared to other parts of world. What Sania and Narain did was history in Indian sports. How can the names of players who created history be missed in this thread. Anyway one doubt: -

1)If Sachin in pakistan series completes 10,000 runs in tests, can that be included here?

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India's major sporting achievements in 2005

Postby Kumar » Tue Feb 22, 2005 3:55 am

If winning a WTA Tier IV Event is equivalent to climbing the Mount Everest then Sania deserves her place in this thread. What will we call winning a Grand Slam singles then?


I knew it was going to come and probably deserved that!!! :tomato: My point is no major newspapers in the world make a big deal when somebody climbs a Mt. Everest nowadays.. Itz still a big deal to individuals and a great achievement.. But whyisn't the newspapers covering it?

And when somebody comes up and does something that has not been done before by billions of Indians before them , Why shouldn't it qualify as 'Major' Achievement for an Indian athletes (which is the subject of this thread).. Next time somebody wins a Tier IV tournament or get in to F1, nobody will probably make a arguement to include this.

As far as Narain's achievements go I am not familiar with F1 racing.. How many drivers are part of F1? 20, 30? Isnt' this a world class achievement to be part of this Elite group?

PKB and I are not the gatekeeper of this thread. What we need is a better definition of what qualifies to get a name in this thread.

We are confusing first time achievements by Indians (e.g., Sania, Narain) with world class performances. Both Sania and Narain have done something thst no other Indian has done but their performances were not amongst the top in the world.


I agree we definitely need a set of 'qualification' standards for this thread... And my take is the first time achievement of Indians in 'World wide' sport should definitely qualify for this thread... But I will abide by the majority opinion of the forum members... But if we finally decide that it doesn't qualify, I sincerely hope we can change the topic to indicate 'World Class Achievements by Indians'...

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India's major sporting achievements in 2005

Postby BSharma » Tue Feb 22, 2005 4:45 am

I knew it was going to come and probably deserved that!!! My point is no major newspapers in the world make a big deal when somebody climbs a Mt. Everest nowadays.. Itz still a big deal to individuals and a great achievement.. But whyisn't the newspapers covering it?


Mountaineering is considered a sport by some people but it is not a spectator sport. Once the Mount Everest had been conquered then the novelty went away and the press stopped covering the news. Now the only news that gets published about the Mt. Everest climb is if there is a tragedy or someone finds a unique way to climb it.

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India's major sporting achievements in 2005

Postby PKBasu » Mon Feb 28, 2005 3:12 am

As a part-time mountaineer myself (although the last time I climbed was twenty-two years ago!!), I should perhaps help place Sania's achievement in context. Had she become the first Indian to win a Grand Slam, she could be thought equivalent to the first Indians to have climbed Mt Everest -- MS Kohli and HPS Ahluwalia. Since she has won a Tier IV event, it qualifies as being the first conquest of another Himalayan peak (such as Nanga Parbat); perhaps we can consider it equivalent to scaling a virgin peak such as Nanga Parbat. (Tenzing's sons Jamling, Norbu and Dhamey were in my school, as were his grandsons Tashi and Sonam; Jamling and Tashi have also scaled Mt. Everest in recent years).


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