India-England ODI Series, Jan 2017

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prasen9
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Re: India-England ODI Series, Jan 2017

Postby prasen9 » Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:35 am

Jadeja is the new Kapil. He never learns. Despite that, in ODIs, he is a reasonably good bat to have and has produced almost as much as Rahane has, but, in much fewer balls. Of course, I suspect his abroad splits may be worse than Rahane's. Haven't checked.

I don't know if Jadeja and Ashwin are really our best ODI bowlers. Jadeja keeps his place because of his superb fielding and ability to hit out at the end. Useful #7. However, Ashwin, I don't know. It is a shame Rasool was not given more chances for us to see what he can do. Mishra takes wickets, but, don't know whether the team can hide him in the field somewhere and his batting is possibly worse than Ashwin's especially abroad.

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Re: India-England ODI Series, Jan 2017

Postby PKBasu » Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:14 am

Umesh Yadav should probably not be wasted on ODIs. He somehow hasn't figured out how to bowl in this format, although he is better at tests and in T20s.
Hardik Pandya's temperament was impressive (again) yesterday with bat and ball.

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Re: India-England ODI Series, Jan 2017

Postby rajitghosh » Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:32 am

Yes, definitely with the bat. He tried his best to get run out. The English fielders could not do it. May be he is the next Inzamam in finding comical ways to get run out. :p

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Re: India-England ODI Series, Jan 2017

Postby PKBasu » Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:43 am

He was a bit too eager to take risky singles (about three). Both batsmen at the crease then are good runners, so not too much harm done. Sanjay Manjrekar was making too much of this, in my view, as he usually does -- being the quintessential risk-averse cricketer.

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Re: India-England ODI Series, Jan 2017

Postby rajitghosh » Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:41 am

That's true. Sanjay Manjrekar was a true benchmark for running between the wickets. Of the same class as Inzamam. :p

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Re: India-England ODI Series, Jan 2017

Postby prasen9 » Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:01 am

If you are talking about modern day runout masters, nobody did it as often as Samaraweera. Run out % in tests I think MacGill tried his best but could not hold a candle. MacGill outshone Ian Bishop though in this regard.

Wrt running out partners, our king was Venkatesh Prasad. (scroll down in the article linked above).

I am not saying Manjrekar or Inzi were not bad. But, Venky Prasad made things happen. One could always bank on him.

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Re: India-England ODI Series, Jan 2017

Postby rajitghosh » Tue Jan 17, 2017 4:59 am

If we make a all time Worst Indian XI for players having played 20 test matches, Sanjay Manjrekar and Ravi Shastri would easily walk in along with Madan Lal who used to back away towards square leg when fast bowlers ran in.

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Re: India-England ODI Series, Jan 2017

Postby PKBasu » Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:00 am

Nice to see Yuvi make a substantial score today. The cancer survivor is back at last. 81* at a run a ball, in a century stand with Dhoni (their tenth together). Brings back happy memories of that memorable night -- 2 April 2011, before Yuvi knew he had cancer.

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Re: India-England ODI Series, Jan 2017

Postby PKBasu » Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:34 am

103* off 101 balls. You bet Yuvi is back!!

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Re: India-England ODI Series, Jan 2017

Postby PKBasu » Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:36 pm

Marvellous career-best 150 from Yuvraj, and a well paced century from Dhoni as well.
But the Indian pacers (other than Bhuvi) are being generous to the England batsmen.

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Re: India-England ODI Series, Jan 2017

Postby PKBasu » Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:12 pm

India look headed for defeat despite scoring 381.
Our pace bowlers are pretty awful. Bumra has been woeful in both matches, and Pandya has bowled poorly today as well.

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Re: India-England ODI Series, Jan 2017

Postby PKBasu » Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:33 pm

I just don't understand why Bhuvi keeps getting dropped. He performs in all forms of the game, and should always be the first Indian seamer picked after Shami. He has been a cut above Bumra and Pandya today, containing runs early, and picking wickets in the chase.

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Re: India-England ODI Series, Jan 2017

Postby prasen9 » Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:19 pm

Because this is one day. Generally, he does not take wickets. He can only keep the runs down. He could not bowl at the end. Today, he did. He has to consistently be able to bowl at the end and keep things down. Also, because in today's team, if you look at the averages, Bhuvi is the #7 bowler for India career-wise. If you only consider regular bowlers, he is the worst. He is worse than our #6 bowler Yuvi wrt taking wickets. If England had the wickets today, they would have won. You have to take wickets in ODIs these days. Imho, runs/over, which is Bhuvi's strength, is less important. Today, was a decent day for him on this pitch. He needs many more so that he is not the worst bowler in the team (wrt taking wickets).

Imho the turning point was given to us by Bumrah. The dot ball and the runout. Without it, England pretty well may have won. If Bumrah took one wicket less like Bhuvi, England most possibly would have won. He needs to take wickets.

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Re: India-England ODI Series, Jan 2017

Postby indiansportsfan » Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:03 pm

On this pitch and ground, what Bhuvi did was truly commendable. I don't think any of the replacements could have done a better job than him. If Umesh was selected, infact even if he was just given the last over, we might very well have lost the match. Thats because Bhuvi is a smart bowler, while Umesh is largely clueless. Even Shami would have conceded atleast 70 here and very likely we would have lost. We really need Bhuvi for all ODIs/T20s. For swinging conditions we all know why we need him, but even on such batting paradises, we need him because he of his smartness.

1 place I don't want to see Bhuvi play is Tests because although he does a good job there, he doesn't have the physique and fitness to last the rigors of Test cricket. He lasted just 1 Test in Kolkata against NZ (that too mostly 1 inning). Another instance was the England away series that was so exhausting for him that he had to take a long break from cricket. So I would rather preserve him just for ODIs/T20s so atleast he can stay healthy.

And please lets not talk about stats ad nauseam, because just taking some particular stats in isolation is meaningless. You have to look at the conditions, whether playing home/away and on what surface, what the demand of the match situation is. And for ODIs economy is atleast as important as average, and there Bhuvi scores considerably over others. 1 thing to add here is the dropped catch off Bhuvi, which of course won't come up in your "average".

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Re: India-England ODI Series, Jan 2017

Postby prasen9 » Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:29 pm

Absolutely, I am all for it. I would love for someone to take all aspects into consideration and provide the proof before claiming that Bhuvi is better than everyone else in ODIs (after Shami).

If people stop talking ad nauseum about how good he is without evidence by cherry-picking the instances when he has done relatively well, while ignoring the matches where he has done abysmally which outnumbers his good days by far, I will stop pointing to his abysmal record with respect to taking wickets. To me cricket is a simple game, a bowler is there to take wickets. I don't think containing as a strategy in ODIs works. To support my argument, I try to provide numbers. If people here want it to be a fact-free world, I could try to adapt. After all, Trump is going to be our president soon. So, I will save myself some typing and say it without any stats.

Bhuvi should not be in the ODI team because he has been given far too many chances and failed.

Happy? No stats. I will simply call him an outright failure. We should move on to try bowlers who can take wickets. Or is that not allowed to be pointed out too? Because it is a fact.

Also, why do you think that fielders are dropping catches only when Bhuvi is bowling?

Our difference of opinion is because of our fundamental difference in opinion. I think taking wickets is the most important thing. You think containing a batting side is the most important thing. Only a careful analysis of the whole data will let us know which is actually right. I don't know. I am using my gut feeling and you are yours. I could bet my gut is bigger than yours though. So, my gut feeling should be worth more :-)


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