India-England ODI Series, Jan 2017

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India-England ODI Series, Jan 2017

Postby prasen9 » Fri Dec 30, 2016 2:04 am

Given that there are perhaps less than 10 matches to go before the Champions Trophy, we should try to give our pace bowlers some ODI practice. The top two ODI bowlers without doubt are Shami and Bumrah. The third pacer needs to bat pretty well. It should be Binny. The other contender Bhuvi has neither figured out how to score in ODIs nor how to take wickets or how to bowl at the end of the innings in ODIs either. The backup swing-bowers should be Unadkat and Kulkarni. In England, we need more swing bowlers than pace. Umesh gives almost 6 runs/over anyway. Ishant almost the same. Sran does not take wickets as much. Mohit Sharma is non-descript. I do not think Unadkat and Kulkarni will be chosen because of our obsession for pace. And, Binny will not be chosen either.

My batting lineup would be: Rahul, Dhawan, Kohli, Dhoni, Pandey, Kedar, Jayant, Binny, Chahal, Bumrah, Shami.

Rest Jadeja and Ashwin after their heavy workload in the tests.

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Re: India-England ODI Series, Jan 2017

Postby Sin Hombre » Fri Dec 30, 2016 4:15 am

I don't like Hardik but I would still take him over Binny if we needed to have a fast bowling all rounder.

More likely is that we will play Bhuvi as the 3rd bowler in England (he did very well last time in the CT too) so we should give him games too. Rotate him and Shami I suppose for the home series.

Final team for the CT will be something like

Rohit, Dhawan, Kohli, Rahul, Dhoni, Pandey, Pandya (or Bhuvi if it is seaming), Jadeja, Ashwin, Shami, Bumrah

I suppose Rohit is still injured?

So for England, and keeping in mind that Mishraji bowled well against NZ in the last home series, we will probably see

Rahul, Dhawan, Kohli, Dhoni, Pandey, Jadhav, Pandya, Jayant, Mishra, Shami/Bhuvi/Umesh, Bumrah


We should probably arrange another 3 match ODI series before the CT. Really need Pandey or a Jadhav to kick off and make the #6 position their own. #4 to #6 is the biggest weakness in this team.

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Re: India-England ODI Series, Jan 2017

Postby prasen9 » Fri Dec 30, 2016 4:35 am

As I said, Bhuvi does not take wickets except in his first 1-2 overs and cannot bowl in the end overs. So, he is a big liability. Having said that, if the pitch is assisting swing bowling, then Bhuvi does come into play. I think the Champions Trophy pitches will be somewhat monitored by the ICC and made to be more batting pitches than they would be if the English groundsmen did it on their own. I am not confident that Bhuvi will be of much use in these cases.

I had forgotten about Pandya because of his injury. He is a prospect. But, his bowling is not great either. His batting is slightly better than Binny's and given that we need a big hitter, hoping that he will make it is the best we can do, I guess. Again not confident, but, given the lack of backup pacers and pace-bowling allrounders, it may be okay to go with him.

Dhoni can no longer play at #5. He has to play in the top 4. If he is finishing things at #5, he will mess up the balls-faced and fail to finish. We have seen this umpteen times in the last year or two. So, sticking in Rahul at #4 is not a good idea. That is also not his natural position. We have to choose 2 among Dhawan, Rohit, and Rahul. I would go with Rahul and Dhawan. But, Rohit also has batted well in England in the past and it won't be a terrible selection to go with him instead of Dhawan.

Umesh should be kept away from ODIs. He is useless. If anything Mohit has performed much better than him. As have Dhawal and Unadkat in the chances they got. But, he takes more wickets than Bhuvi or Sran. If you want him, might as well go with Ishant, who takes wickets more regularly and is less erratic.

Mishra-ji would be good as a leggie. If the captain thinks we can manage his fielding, then he is fine. I was trying Chahal to try a youngster, but, I have no complaints if he is selected.

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Re: India-England ODI Series, Jan 2017

Postby PKBasu » Fri Dec 30, 2016 5:40 am

The pitches in England may be made more batting friendly, but nobody can alter the overhead playing conditions, which will always favour a swing bowler like Bhuvi. He has to be in the side for an England tour (or one to NZ).

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Re: India-England ODI Series, Jan 2017

Postby Atithee » Fri Dec 30, 2016 6:08 am

If you can't bat (see what Starc does), it doesn't matter for an Indian bowler how much they swing the ball; they should not play for India. There is no rule that multiple fast spinners have to be in the team. All of them will pretty much fare the same as a bowler. It's their batting that will carry India home in close matches. That's why I love Shami. We need more of them.

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Re: India-England ODI Series, Jan 2017

Postby PKBasu » Fri Dec 30, 2016 11:07 am

Bhuvi can certainly bat. He has a test batting average of nearly 23, and can tonk the ball with a bat in hand when necessary.
But there is no doubt that Shami is the better bowler, and should always be in the XI for important matches/tournaments. Bhuvi should generally not be wasted in home ODIs, where his swing bowling will be less effective (and he is indeed quite useless in the slog overs, especially at home). But in England, he has shown he can both bat and bowl well (he starred in the 2013 Champions Trophy, and bowled well in the last test series there until he got injured towards the end). He is actually quicker than most of the England bowlers who played in the latest series in India, apart from being able to swing the ball both ways. However, his limitation is that he is almost exclusively a new ball bowler -- much less effective at the end of an ODI innings.

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Re: India-England ODI Series, Jan 2017

Postby prasen9 » Fri Dec 30, 2016 2:07 pm

With respect to swing in the air, you are right, but, the pitches won't help him. In England, he did bowl well when he played ODIs. However, because he cannot bowl at the slog (and some matches India did not bowl the full 50 overs), he was given 66 overs in 9 matches. That is around 7 overs a match. He hardly had to bat in England. Overall, Kumar has batted 30 ODI innings, 8 NO, average 9.4, SR 74.19. That is a large enough sample size where Kumar has shown that he cannot bat in ODIs. Tests and ODIs are different. I don't mind taking him because we have no other options but he should be a reserve bowler. Shami and Bumrah should be the first two. And, the third one should bat much better. Maybe Hardik if you want more batting, Binny if you want more bowling.

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Re: India-England ODI Series, Jan 2017

Postby PKBasu » Sat Dec 31, 2016 3:59 pm

When will they announce the ODI squad??

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Re: India-England ODI Series, Jan 2017

Postby jaydeep » Sat Dec 31, 2016 7:16 pm

As per report ODI squad to be announced in the first week of January.

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Re: India-England ODI Series, Jan 2017

Postby sanjay8886 » Wed Jan 04, 2017 3:49 pm

MS Dhoni steps down from ODI and T20 captaincy.

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Re: India-England ODI Series, Jan 2017

Postby Tolamu » Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:07 pm

sanjay8886 wrote:MS Dhoni steps down from ODI and T20 captaincy.

Good riddance! About time.

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Re: India-England ODI Series, Jan 2017

Postby prasen9 » Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:07 pm

I don't think Dhoni was that bad as a captain, but, this move may have several benefits. First, it gives Kohli one or two series before Champions Trophy to figure out ODI captaincy. If he is going to step down, this is poor timing. He should have stepped down after last summer. Or he should have done so after Champions Trophy. But, if he cannot handle the load mentally, maybe it is better now than dragging us down at the Champions.

Second, Dhoni's place as a player. I think he is still our best batting keeper. He needs to bat in the top 4. If we want a lower order keeper, maybe we should drop him and get Pant. There should be no sentiments. Kumble and Kohli should figure out what they want to do and do it ruthlessly. I would keep him at #4 with strict instructions to get the board moving or get out after 20 balls or so. Maybe batting without the responsibility of captaincy will let Dhoni play more freely.

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Re: India-England ODI Series, Jan 2017

Postby indiansportsfan » Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:05 pm

For this series, I would like our Test bowlers to get a break, specially Shami/Umesh/Ashwin/Jadeja. There are lot of tough Tests coming up soon after. This opens up 2 spots for fast bowlers. Dinda has been highly impressive this season. He has the aggression and the pace and it is time he gets another chance. Another bowler who has been very impressive whenever he bowls is RP SIngh. During the last couple of seasons, he has often outbowled his statemate Bumrah, but while Bumrah got his big break, RP was ignored, likely because of his age. I would like him also to get another chance, and he also fills the left-armer spot very well. The backup bowler I would take is Bhuvi. I think Bhuvi might do much better under a new captain.

Coming to spinners, since Axar is out, I would take Chahal and Kuldeep to partner Mishra, infact they are probably better than Mishra.

Finally in the batting department, with the injuries to Rohit and Rahane, atleast 2 spots up as well. I would like Yuvi to make a comeback, since he has been in spectacular form this season. The other spot seems a toss up between Mandeep Singh and Mukund for the backup opener spot. While Mandeep probably deserves another chance, Mukund is likely better.

So my final team looks like as follows:
Dhawan, Rahul, Mukund, Kohli, Manish, Kedar, Yuvi, Dhoni, Bumrah, Dinda, RPS, Pandya, Chahal, Kuldeep, Mishra, Bhuvi (backup).

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Re: India-England ODI Series, Jan 2017

Postby prasen9 » Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:34 pm

I think Umesh, Ashwin and Jadeja should be rested. If Shami is fit, he needs some work. We need to try out a pace-bowling allrounder at #7 with an eye towards Champions Trophy. One among Hardik or Binny should be tried.

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Re: India-England ODI Series, Jan 2017

Postby indiansportsfan » Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:11 am

Why not rest Shami? He has been prone to injuries and we really need him for the Australian series. His value to the Test squad is much more than the ODI squad. For the ODIs Bumrah and someone among the options mentioned (Dinda, RPS, Bhuvi) should do the job


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