Indian Premier League (IPL)

As the other sports forums seem to have taken old to some respect, well here is a cricket forum. NOTE: This forum will be heavily moderated and can be revoked at any time is discussions go out of hand.

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PKBasu
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Re: Indian Premier League (IPL)

Postby PKBasu » Thu May 04, 2017 6:20 am

MI, KKR and Pune are almost certainly in the playoffs, after Pune's win over KKR yesterday. Most teams have 2-3 matches still to play, but RCB are definitely out. SRHyderabad still look likeliest to stay in fourth place, but KXIP might try to challenge that outcome.

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Re: Indian Premier League (IPL)

Postby PKBasu » Fri May 05, 2017 1:11 am

Pant gets back into contention with a match-winning 97 for Delhi Daredevils against Gujarat Lions (probably knocking the latter out of the IPL for this year).

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Re: Indian Premier League (IPL)

Postby Sin Hombre » Fri May 05, 2017 1:38 am

Lot of emerging young talent on the batting side that we need to play over old has-beens like Yuvi and Dhoni who can produce the odd innings but fail consistently otherwise. Or the likes of Rohit and Dhawan who have been out of form for a very long time.

Sanju Samson, Rahul Tripathi, Manish Pandey, Nitish Rana and Rishabh Pant are all having excellent IPLs.

I would build our LOI teams around these players together with Kohli, KL and Kedar from our existing xi.

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Re: Indian Premier League (IPL)

Postby Atithee » Fri May 05, 2017 1:41 am

Who are the bowlers? Where is the new crop?

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Re: Indian Premier League (IPL)

Postby PKBasu » Fri May 05, 2017 1:50 am

Yes, the selectors need to grasp the nettle and make some sweeping changes. The youngsters are worth investing in.

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Re: Indian Premier League (IPL)

Postby Sin Hombre » Fri May 05, 2017 1:50 am

Bhuvi had an excellent IPL last year but he has taken it up a notch and is by far the best bowler in the tournament this year.

Umesh had one of the best series by an Indian pacer against Australia.

Shami, when fit, is in my opinion the best Asian pacer currently.

So a very good trio of fast bowlers there. Bumrah is very good in LOIs with his variations and Ishant (despite all the laughs) is decent in bouncy conditions.

Amongst the newer crop, only Jaydev Unadkat has done even relatively well.


A lot more emerging quality on the spin side.

Krunal Pandya would be a lock in my Indian LOI team. Technically much better batsman than his brother Hardik and a very smart and consistent spinner. Natural successor to Yuvi/Raina for that role.

Yuzi Chahal, Pawan Negi and Kuldeep Yadav are all interesting options as well.

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Re: Indian Premier League (IPL)

Postby PKBasu » Fri May 05, 2017 1:56 am

Atithee wrote:Who are the bowlers? Where is the new crop?


Not too many, but Basil Thampi is promising, as is Mohammed Siraj. Among spinners, Kulwant continues to show promise for all three formats, and Krunal Pandya and Yuzvendra Chahal have been good. Pawan Negi is a solid all-rounder (so he and Krunal Pandya are competing with Axar Patel for Jadeja's spot in the shorter formats; increasingly, Jadeja seems a better bet mainly for tests). Some slightly older guys (who have yet to be blooded) have shone this year, especially Sandeep Sharma. Unadkat (who played tests when he was far from ready) is looking a finished product.

But I agree that Bhuvi has been outstanding, and Bumrah is very good for LOI cricket. Umesh remains solidly reliable. Shami is our best pacer when fit, but he hasn't shown consistent form yet in this IPL (suggesting that he isn't quite fully fit). Risking him for the Champions Trophy may be dicey.

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Re: Indian Premier League (IPL)

Postby prasen9 » Fri May 05, 2017 2:03 am

PKBasu wrote:Among spinners, Kulwant continues to show promise for all three formats,
Did you mean Kuldeep? Kulwant Khejrolia has played exceptionally well in the 7 List As that he got, but, that is all he has got. So, not in all three formats. He is with the Mumbai Indians but I do not think they have played him.

The best averages (among those who have taken 9 wickets) are by Negi, Bhuvi, Unadkat, Krunal, Chahal, and Sandeep Singh. PKB has covered them all above. This sort of also supports the idea that averages alone are a pretty good simple statistic that you can go by. Getting wickets is still what matters. If you do not get wickets, then the opposition will get to totals that are extremely high (see the last match where Delhi did it).

Unadkat should be at least discussed for the Champions Trophy. We need a left-hander for variety. To give the batsmen different looks. Shami will possibly be a handful in England. They say form is temporary but class is permanent. He will have some time to hit his stride.

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Re: Indian Premier League (IPL)

Postby Sin Hombre » Fri May 05, 2017 2:13 am

This is the ODI team I would like to see (won't happen)

KL
Pant
Kohli
Pandey
Samson / Shreyas Iyer / Hardik
Kedar
Krunal
Jadeja
Bumrah / Umesh / Ashwin (dependent on conditions)
Bhuvi
Shami

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Re: Indian Premier League (IPL)

Postby prasen9 » Fri May 05, 2017 3:23 am

Won't happen soon because KL Rahul is rehabilitating and won't be fit by the Champions Trophy.

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Re: Indian Premier League (IPL)

Postby PKBasu » Fri May 05, 2017 5:57 am

prasen9 wrote:
PKBasu wrote:Among spinners, Kulwant continues to show promise for all three formats,
Did you mean Kuldeep? .


Yes I meant Kuldeep Yadav :oops:

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Re: Indian Premier League (IPL)

Postby PKBasu » Fri May 05, 2017 4:59 pm

Another great performance from Sandeep Sharma today: 3/22 off 4 overs (with the wickets of Gayle, Kohli and DeVilliers). He bowls at about the pace of Mohit Sharma (his teammate at KXIP) but is far more skilful.

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Re: Indian Premier League (IPL)

Postby prasen9 » Fri May 05, 2017 6:04 pm

Sin Hombre wrote:Lot of emerging young talent on the batting side that we need to play over old has-beens like Yuvi and Dhoni who can produce the odd innings but fail consistently otherwise. Or the likes of Rohit and Dhawan who have been out of form for a very long time.

Sanju Samson, Rahul Tripathi, Manish Pandey, Nitish Rana and Rishabh Pant are all having excellent IPLs.

I would build our LOI teams around these players together with Kohli, KL and Kedar from our existing xi.
This is the type of short-sightedness that results in random selections. ODI selections should not be based on IPL. Samson has a poor record in List-As over his career. There is no reason to choose him in ODIs over Saha, Karthik, Parthiv, etc. He does not get into an ODI team. He averages under 30 in domestic List-As.

Rahul Tripathi averages even worse. 24 in domestic List-As.

Manish Pandey certainly deserves his chances.

Nitish Rana averages 22.5 in domestic List-As. Gambhir, Karthik, Pandey, Raina, and Uthappa average more than him at a significantly better SR even in this IPL.

Risabh Pant averages 20.6 in List-As. But, he is just 19. I would play him in T20Is and see how he does.

The IPL is very short. People get about 14 matches. Just because you hit a purple patch does not make you a great player. Giving away India caps to people without a body of work cheapens the cap and people will take things for granted if they do not earn it.

Dhawan has performed better than most domestic players in this IPL. If he is out of form, then so are 90% of the players. He is averaging 36.9 at a SR of 125. A tad slow but that is because he plays the foil to a rampaging Warner.

In ODIs, you cannot have a team of big hitters only. They have to be consistent to score some runs. Tripathi, Samson, Rana, and Pant are all big hitters but they cannot consistently play 20-30 overs and score big runs --- at least they have not shown that they can do. You need these people to play at #5-#6. I would be fine choosing 1-2 of them at that slot. But, Manish and Kedar are already the incumbents in those slots and have not done much worse there. For, #1-4 in ODIs, we need batsmen of some class. Not just hit and giggle players who are in form.

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Re: Indian Premier League (IPL)

Postby Sin Hombre » Fri May 05, 2017 10:10 pm

You are arguing against windmills here prasen.

I mentioned the ODI team I wanted and you even replied to it. And it didn't contain any of these guys you are arguing against outside of Pant who averages almost 69 in FC cricket and there should be very little doubts about his temperament to play big innings.

All of these names were mentioned for T20I cricket, and it is certainly the case that the best teams in this format (Eng, WI) go for big hitters through the lineup.

If England is able to replicate that in ODIs, that would mean more teams evolving to do the same.

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Re: Indian Premier League (IPL)

Postby prasen9 » Sat May 06, 2017 5:05 am

Sin Hombre wrote:I would build our LOI teams around these players together with Kohli, KL and Kedar from our existing xi.
Fair enough. I interpret LOI as T20Is + ODIs. Maybe this was a loose statement then.

With respect to T20Is, yes, the SR plays a major part and choosing big hitters is the way to go.

Actually, Australia has tried to seriously choose using SR even for their ODI games. Consequently, they have junked Ferguson, Bailey, etc., who are otherwise solid ODI players. They suffer when the conditions help bowlers because Finch, etc. are not that good as batsmen. However, because the pitches/conditions rarely favor bowlers these days, the Aussies lose a game here and there and are actually proving that taking the hardest hitters is not a terrible strategy. The Aussies do have one of the best pace attacks in the world though. Without that, I do not know if using the high SR/relatively-low Ave guys throughout the lineup is a good strategy. But, it may be ...


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