Is Cricket a "True" International Sport

As the other sports forums seem to have taken old to some respect, well here is a cricket forum. NOTE: This forum will be heavily moderated and can be revoked at any time is discussions go out of hand.

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Cricket is a world sport.

Poll runs till Mon Jul 11, 2039 5:28 am

Completly Agree
4
24%
Agree
0
No votes
Close Call
3
18%
Disagree
7
41%
Completly Disagree
1
6%
DONT CARE: stupid argument & thanks vkd for creating a sepereate thread i can ignore
2
12%
 
Total votes: 17

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amr090
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Is Cricket a "True" International Sport

Postby amr090 » Sun Mar 20, 2005 5:51 pm

i think people that agree with cricket being a world sport, do it on the basis that if it is not recognized as one diminishes its value somehow.

cricket is defnitely not a world sport. its not played by nearly enough countries for it to be recognized as one. neither is american football (or even baseball) although baseball has a slightly larger international following.

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Is Cricket a "True" International Sport

Postby mugu » Sun Mar 20, 2005 5:52 pm

nothingnew wrote:And Mugu, you are talking like a typical frustrated Indian :D . Cricket killed other games?? Noway Mugu. Whatever cricket is today it earned it. There is scope for every one and everything in this world, if you are not able to acgieve somethign doesn't mean other sport spoiled it. In that way I can tell Soccer is killing cricket at world level. No that is not the point. Everyone and everysport today are in a positions where they are because they worked hard for it. No sport is born with money and popularity.

``Talking like a typical frustrated Indian". Frustrated at what, nothingnew? Do you mean to say Indians are typically frustrated? Or do you mean to say cricket-haters among Indians are typical in their frustrations? Or do you mean to say that all frustrated Indians are cricket haters? Or did you actually mean that I am a typical frustrated Indian sports (minus cricket) lover?
"Whatever cricket is today it earned it."
I never said it wasn't so. Of course it earned it.
My argument about cricket having killed other sport in India is not based on whether it had gained in popularity on its own steam or through any devious means. It earned its popularity on its own merit.
And yet, it also ensured that it practically killed the rest of the sport. Now, I am not saying that it shouldn't have attracted the crowds and sponsors and left something for the others. I am not saying that cricket did anything to ensure that say hockey or football didn't come up in popularity. No it never did anything like that. It just happened like that. Cricket couldn't have helped it, even if it wanted!
"In that way I can tell Soccer is killing cricket at world level"
I might have agreed with you if by any chance cricket was in anyway in competition with soccer (football) in any of the countries (outside India) barring perhaps Australia and South Africa. I am not sure about the latter. Not in England, not anywhere else in Europe; not in Latin America, not in rest of Asia (bar the cricket-playing Test countries)
"Everyone and everysport today are in a positions where they are because they worked hard for it. No sport is born with money and popularity"
Agree with you there. Completely. (Did I say differently in my earlier post?!)

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Is Cricket a "True" International Sport

Postby PKBasu » Sun Mar 20, 2005 5:59 pm

We really should stop going over the same ground over and over again.

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BSharma
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Is Cricket a "True" International Sport

Postby BSharma » Sun Mar 20, 2005 6:04 pm

Why bother if cricket is a world sport or not?

American football is played in fewer countries than cricket but do you ever see a discussion in USA if it is a world sport or not.

A sport is a world sport or not based on how you define "world sport". Jay and PKB are using different definitions and are coming to different conclusions.

Why bother, I say. :D

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Is Cricket a "True" International Sport

Postby Sandeep » Sun Mar 20, 2005 7:11 pm

Sorry Mugu, I thought you were talking like some Indians who say other games suffered because of cricket and they begrudge cricket for it. If you didn't mean that I am sorry.

But whenever this argument comes up I wonder what are we trying to conclude? Even if cricket is not world sport, does that mean we need less talent to be a member in Indian squad. I think cricket players need same amount of talent and hardwork to earn a place in Indian team as any other world sport. Or is it that because cricket is not world sport, there isn't quality in that game?

I feel if we know what are we tring to conclude we can discuss better.

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Is Cricket a "True" International Sport

Postby PKBasu » Mon Mar 21, 2005 12:31 am

gvhvhg wrote:PKB. First off, I would eliminate a few countries from your list. Thailand (having lived there,) Kenya, Malaysia, Ireland, Singapore, Fiji, Bermuda and PNG. These are all nations that may have professional teams in some capacity yes, but Cricket is by no means a major sport in these countries. When Kenya made the world cup semi finals virtually nobody was following it in Kenya. When the tri-series was held last september in Holland, it wasnt televised locally and the crowd on hand was entirely south asian. Sony Max even did a piece where they walked around Amsterdam with a Cricket Ball, which none of the locals could identify.

Another thing is that the cricket that is played in these nations is once again played by the expats from England, India, Pakistan and the West Indies. In order for you to include these countries in your list I would think that the game would have to be played and understood BY THE LOCALS.

.


I don't want to pursue this debate yet again.
But I thought that some of Gurvinder's points needed to be refuted! Especially since they purport to be factual :) !
First on Thailand. If you look at the two main newspapers in Thailand, the Bangkok Post and the Nation, both have extensive coverage of cricket. There is an active cricket league in Thailand, and if gvhvhg goes back there and looks carefully he will find that cricket is indeed played actively in the country -- and not just by Indian expatriates. Even the latter speak Thai and have assimilated into Thailand, but some pure Thais also play the game. I'm not suggesting that it is a hugely popular sport in Thailand, but enough people know the game for it to be given extensive coverage in the nation's newspaper.
Second on Kenya. The entire Kenyan team consisted of Kenyans at the World Cup, and they made the semi-final. Cricket is seen as a mildly-exotic sport in Kenya (less so than hockey), and is no match for football (soccer) in terms of popularity. But it is an important sport that is widely played -- and is a regular part of the curriculum in all the important schools in the country. The team I play for in the Singapore league has a Kenyan player (whose technique is terrific, and who continues to open the batting for us at 40-plus because of that).
Third on Holland. Ditto. The team is full of Dutch players, and they are near world-class (probably the 12th best in the world). You don't have to have people on the street knowing about a sport for it to exist in a country. If you go around India's cities asking about Kho-kho, most people would be blissfully unaware of it, but that doesn't mean that Kho-kho isn't enormously popular in India. In Holland, the newspapers (in both Dutch and English) cover cricket (including the local league).

Cricket is a complicated game, requiring a lot of exotic equipment. So you cannot expect it to be played on the streets of every country that plays the game. But I can assure you that Singapore (where I live) plays the sport, as does Malaysia. Many of the teams in the Singapore and Malaysia leagues do comprise expatriate Australians, Indians, Pakistanis, etc., but a large number of these are permanent residents or citizens. And the school teams -- and the more vigorous teams in the leagues -- are largely made up of locals. When a sport is played regularly in the schools of a country, it belongs to the country. Cricket is definitely a Singapore and Malaysia sport: it is played in schools, they have active cricket leagues with local players strongly involved, and the local newspapers actively report on the sport.

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Is Cricket a "True" International Sport

Postby BSharma » Mon Mar 21, 2005 1:05 am

PKB, although I agree with you that cricket is a world sport (based on my definition of "world sport", I disagree with your statement
Cricket is a complicated game, requiring a lot of exotic equipment. So you cannot expect it to be played on the streets of every country that plays the game.


Many kids who play cricket on the streets in India use an old tennis/cricket/rubber ball, a bat, and some bricks for wickets. :D

Ofcourse, playing full-fledged cricket requires more equipment than those required for playing in the streets/small fields in India.

I repeat, why bother? Billiards is played by fewer people in the world than cricket but Pankaj Advani has made the Indians proud by winning the world title. Let us enjoy the good performances of the Indian athletes whether we consider a particular sport "world sport" or not.

I voted for "Don't care". :D I am glad that vkd_1717 raised this question and gave the choice of "Don't care".

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Is Cricket a "True" International Sport

Postby PKBasu » Mon Mar 21, 2005 5:55 am

Of course I know that Indians (and West Indians) play cricket with whatever equipment they can find. But that is a degree of fanatical interest that is reserved only for football in the rest of the world. Even Aussies rarely play "tennis-ball cricket".
One of the most forbidding aspects of cricket is all the equipment that is required to play it properly. I know from playing with my kids in my backyard, that a wicket, hardish ball and bat are the minimum requirements to create the impression of a credible game of cricket. Once someone is "hooked" to the game, "tennis-ball cricket" is a possibility (with bricks for a wicket etc.). But you still need a wicket of sorts, bat and ball. Football and rugby are much easier for a group of friends to get together and start playing (all you need is a ball; Pele didn't even have a ball, using a pack of sacks to hone his skills while selling merchandise in the stands of Maracana stadium).

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Is Cricket a "True" International Sport

Postby BSharma » Mon Mar 21, 2005 6:59 am

Cricket is a complicated game, requiring a lot of exotic equipment.


Cricket requires a lot less exotic equipment than many sports, e.g., tennis, basketball, swimming, baseball, American football, field hockey, gymnastics, billiards, etc.

Children in Australia (also England/New Zealand) often do not play cricket using bricks for wickets because they have the money to buy proper basic equipment (bat, ball, stumps). Children in Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, and perhaps in East Africa/South Africa/ also play cricket using primitive equipment, and it is not limited to India and West Indies. ("Of course I know that Indians (and West Indians) play cricket with whatever equipment they can find.")

Pele played soccer using packs of sacks because he grew up in a "poor" area but children in Western Europe/USA/Australia/other rich countries do not play soccer using what Pele used.

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Re: Is Cricket a

Postby jayakris » Sun Aug 28, 2016 12:15 am

Interesting to go back and look into this old thread after about a dozen years since the initial discussions on whether cricket was a world sport.

This article today after the India-WI T20 in Florida (of which I came to know only after it had happened) made me think again - 'Didn't expect the facilities to be as good' - Kumble

That bothered me. I mean, if the cricket world cares even one bit about spreading this great game in the world, USA had to be a key area, and people should have been aware of this beautiful stadium in Florida - the the Broward county stadium at Lauderhill. It is the only one in the USA that was designed and built specifically for cricket, in 2007, and approved by ICC soon after for international matches (I am sure many of you saw it in today's T20 telecast). It was built 3 years after our discussion in this thread where I was talking about how the cricket countries, led by India of course, do not want to spread this game in the world, out of some cult mentality or just short-sighted thinking. The game is still not an international sport and it will stay so, if everybody's attitude is like this.

A whole 9 years after the Broward county stadium was built, there have been just 3 or 4 international matches played there and the true giant of the game (India) took this long to even make a visit there. Meanwhile the US taxpayers in Broward county who somehow were magnanimous to go with the Caribbean and S.Asian folks' pitch in spending money to get it built have lost so much money, and the newspapers in Florida kept talking about what a white elephant the unused stadium was. It's mind-boggling that in this day and age, somehow this stadium got built with local taxpayer money in the USA to not be used for anything much for years. They were nearly ready to convert the whole thing into football (soccer) fields and forget about cricket, but the stadium somehow survived some 3 years ago. They're still struggling.

There are only 2 cricket stadiums of world standard in N.America - this one and another struggling one in Toronto. There are enough cricket fans in N.America (even if all of them are immigrants). Just play some matches in these stadiums to get something going. I think I complained about this during the W.Indies world cup, when they should have played at least some exhibition matches at the Broward stadium in Florida which is just a 1.5 hour flight away from Jamaica.

Glad to see that India finally played there. But yeah, cricket is not an international sport and it will remain so, as far as I can see.

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Re: Is Cricket a

Postby PKBasu » Sun Aug 28, 2016 3:04 am

It was a spectacular match yesterday (489 runs in 40 overs) but I wish the Florida stadium was built to hold more than 20,000 or so spectators.

Not stadia, but there are lots of grounds dedicated to playing Cricket and nothing else in the US. I played a couple of matches at the Haverford College ground outside Philadelphia (Ranji once made 88 there in 1896), and there was another beautiful ground inside a forested area which was the home to Prior Cricket club. The Philadelphia Cricket Club, sadly, doesn't play Cricket any more (the closest it comes is grass court tennis :-( ).

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Re: Is Cricket a

Postby Prashant » Sun Aug 28, 2016 3:18 am

Many years ago I went to some India - Pak ODIs at that ground in Toronto, and it is a far cry from international standard for anything...

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Re: Is Cricket a

Postby genius » Mon Aug 29, 2016 7:52 am

Cricket is a very good model for an international sport in that you concentrate on very competitive teams.

Instead of too many average sides who have no chance of winning..

Being a global sport brings one advantage- a style unique to a region

so cricket may miss a south American style or north American style.

another drawback could be a developed country power with huge population- only England comes close and its a distant
no2 or no 3 there.

but this is hardly an ideal world... 3 150 million plus countries is pretty good I would say!

Entertainment is mainly about superstars...the supporting cast is by and large there to make up the numbers

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Re: Is Cricket a

Postby jaydeep » Mon Aug 29, 2016 1:19 pm

Good to see old-timers r again started posting. :)

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Re: Is Cricket a

Postby Omkara » Mon Aug 29, 2016 2:16 pm

genius wrote:Cricket is a very good model for an international sport in that you concentrate on very competitive teams.
Instead of too many average sides who have no chance of winning..
Being a global sport brings one advantage- a style unique to a region
so cricket may miss a south American style or north American style.
another drawback could be a developed country power with huge population- only England comes close and its a distant
no2 or no 3 there.
but this is hardly an ideal world... 3 150 million plus countries is pretty good I would say!
Entertainment is mainly about superstars...the supporting cast is by and large there to make up the numbers


Australia bouncy track, sub continent spinning track, England swinging track.... we have enough variation


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