2017 European Tour

Coverage of Indian players in USPGA , EPGA, Nationwide tour and Womens tour events

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Sin Hombre
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Re: 2017 European Tour

Postby Sin Hombre » Tue Feb 07, 2017 5:11 am

I am talking about the overall performance, he should be competing for the win in a standard European tour field if he is in good form.

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Re: 2017 European Tour

Postby PKBasu » Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:37 am

Of course, everybody should be competing to win the title. But a top-20 finish in a big EPGA event is pretty decent for a guy ranked 85 in the world (with a career-high of 33).

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Re: 2017 European Tour

Postby Sin Hombre » Wed Feb 08, 2017 5:12 am

Anirban is a bit more than your usual journeyman. A top 20 finish in an European tour event is a good result for a SSP or a Bhullar, underwhelming for Lahiri.

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Re: 2017 European Tour

Postby prajgolf » Thu Feb 09, 2017 3:03 pm

$3,000,000 Maybank Championship

Round 1 Scores Top 70:

T3 Gaganjeet BHULLAR -6
T11 Shubhankar SHARMA -4
T19 Anirban LAHIRI -3
T31 Shiv KAPUR -2
T31 Chiragh KUMAR -2
T31 Arjun ATWAL-2
T53 Jeev Milkha SINGH -1
T68 Rashid KHAN Par
T68 S.S.P CHAWRASIA Par

Good start by Gaganjeet Bhullar and Shubhankar Sharma. Anirban Lahiri had a double on 17th hole, else he would have been in top 10.

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Re: 2017 European Tour

Postby arjun2761 » Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:52 pm

Sin Hombre wrote:Anirban is a bit more than your usual journeyman. A top 20 finish in an European tour event is a good result for a SSP or a Bhullar, underwhelming for Lahiri.


The EPGA tour is pretty close to the PGA tour now in terms of competition although not in prize money. The top spot in this tournament yielded 46 points to 56 points for the PGA winner last week, so the strength of the fields were quite close. The 3.11 pts earned by Anirban in this tournament were higher than the points he earned for a T-13 and T-25 finish in the last 2 PGA starts in which he scored points.

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Re: 2017 European Tour

Postby Sin Hombre » Fri Feb 10, 2017 2:55 am

The top spot points actually includes the home tour rating which the European tour always has a good score on because the likes of Rory retain a membership despite not playing in Europe much.

"The Home Tour Rating is based on the number of Top-30 Ranked players using each tours end of year final ranking with a value allocated to the position within the Top 30 Ranked players"


A better way to evaluate the level of the tournament is to count the number of top players. Or use the official strength of field.

The one in Dubai had 4 top-20 players, similar to an ATP250 level in tennis. Official strength of field = 269

The one in Phoenix had 8 top-20 players, similar to an ATP500 level in tennis. Official strength of field = 415.


The Maybank championship this week is even weaker with a strength of field at 194.

Most events on the PGA tour are comfortably above 300 so I will have to disagree with the claim about the European tour being similar in quality. It is not.

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Re: 2017 European Tour

Postby prajgolf » Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:55 am

$3,000,000 Maybank Championship

Round 2 Scores:

T5 Shubhankar SHARMA -8
T7 Anirban LAHIRI -7
T7 Shiv KAPUR -7
T14 Gaganjeet BHULLAR -6
T29 Rashid KHAN -4
T51 Jyoti RANDHAWA -2
T51 Chiragh KUMAR -2

Shubhankar Sharma, Anirban Lahiri and Shiv Kapur have moved up to top ten. 6 other Indians including Jeev, SSP and Arjun Atwal have missed the cut.
:goodluck: for weekend rounds

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Re: 2017 European Tour

Postby arjun2761 » Fri Feb 10, 2017 3:10 pm

@sinhombre - Agree with your point that PGA is tougher than EPGA if the difference analogized as between ATP 500 and ATP 250.

However, disagree that someone who is #85 should be contending for a title at EPGA just as a #85 in ATP would not be be expected to contend at ATP 250 level either. For someone of that level, a top 20 finish in EPGA typically improve their OWGR just as a QF performance in ATP 250 would be a solid achievement for a #85 ATP player.

BTW, it appears that the difference in WR points in largely based on the rankings and number of the top-200 players in the field with the higher rated players counting for more. The "home tour" ranking adds a smaller part to the rankings and essentially measures the number of top-30 players in that tour (per the final finishing position in the last year) which compete in that event. For the EPGA, as you noted many of their top-30 players don't play in many of the events and this has the effect of lowering the world ranking points available in an EPGA event from which would be available if all of them played in a particular event.

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Re: 2017 European Tour

Postby Sin Hombre » Sat Feb 11, 2017 3:11 am

arjun, check this
http://www.owgr.com/en/Ranking/PlayerPr ... erID=12669

Anirban's ranking fell from 83 to 85 after the event in Dubai. This was expected since it is a sub-par performance.

The thing about golf is that there is a lot more variance in results relative to rankings. If you need to maintain your ranking, you need to perform slightly better than your starting position in the field. Of course, winning one big tournament gives your ranking a significant boost.


Also, I like to think of Anirban as a top 50 player because he has been there before and would have been if it wasn't for his recent habit of choking away tournament wins. Just winning the CIMB would have put him 30 spots higher.

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Re: 2017 European Tour

Postby prajgolf » Sat Feb 11, 2017 11:00 am

$3,000,000 Maybank Championship

Round 3 Scores:

T9 Anirban LAHIRI -10
11 Shubhankar SHARMA -9
T12 Gaganjeet BHULLAR -8
T16 Shiv KAPUR -7
T23 Rashid KHAN -6
T44 Chiragh KUMAR -3
68 Jyoti RANDHAWA +3

Not much improvement for Indian golfers today. Anirban Lahiri is 6 shots behind the leader.

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Re: 2017 European Tour

Postby arjun2761 » Sat Feb 11, 2017 8:41 pm

Sin Hombre wrote:arjun, check this
http://www.owgr.com/en/Ranking/PlayerPr ... erID=12669

Anirban's ranking fell from 83 to 85 after the event in Dubai. This was expected since it is a sub-par performance.

The thing about golf is that there is a lot more variance in results relative to rankings. If you need to maintain your ranking, you need to perform slightly better than your starting position in the field. Of course, winning one big tournament gives your ranking a significant boost.


Also, I like to think of Anirban as a top 50 player because he has been there before and would have been if it wasn't for his recent habit of choking away tournament wins. Just winning the CIMB would have put him 30 spots higher.


Actually, your data is missing a week (it's showing the change in his ranking from week 3 to week 5). After this result, he moved from 86 to 85 (i.e., from week 4 to week 5). In any case, a 1-2 spot drop (which of course didn't happen) does not prove anything nor is it "expected" -- on the contrary when your average goes up your rank should go up more often than not. Your relative rank in a single week depends on how those around you performed plus the impact of losing prior points as the ranking window moves 1 week. Otherwise, his 3.11 points for the week is his 4th highest total in his last 20 starts and if he continues to average 3.11 points per week, his rank will move up from his current level on most weeks.

Agree the big jumps come from the top finishes, and he's not had too many recently. Of course, over the last year he's also been playing a lot on the PGA tour in the US on unfamiliar courses and conditions, so that may have something to do with it as well. The test on where he will reach this year will be when he transitions to playing the PGA tour events back in the US.

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Re: 2017 European Tour

Postby prajgolf » Sun Feb 12, 2017 6:45 am

$3,000,000 Maybank Championship

Final Scores:

T7 Anirban LAHIRI -14
T9 Shubhankar SHARMA -12
T12 Shiv KAPUR -9
T12 Rashid KHAN -9
T20 Gaganjeet BHULLAR -8
T41 Chiragh KUMAR -4
T59 Jyoti RANDHAWA Par

Anirban Lahiri was 4 under today and finishes as the best placed Indian at T7. Shubhankar Sharma finishes in top ten.

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Re: 2017 European Tour

Postby arjun2761 » Mon Feb 13, 2017 5:23 am

Watched the back 9 coverage on golf channel on the final day. Anirban was hitting lasers into the greens with wedges or short irons (which means he was hitting long of the tees). In 8 of the holes in the back 9, he typically hit within 15 feet but could only get 3 birdies from shots that were within 5 feet. If his flat stick was working, he could have easily gone 2-3 shots lower on the back 9.

Shubhankar Sharma finished with 3 birdies to get a top 10 finish. He should be ready to become a regular on one of the top tours in the next couple of years.

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Re: 2017 European Tour

Postby Sin Hombre » Tue Feb 14, 2017 4:10 am

arjun2761 wrote:
Sin Hombre wrote:arjun, check this
http://www.owgr.com/en/Ranking/PlayerPr ... erID=12669

Anirban's ranking fell from 83 to 85 after the event in Dubai. This was expected since it is a sub-par performance.

The thing about golf is that there is a lot more variance in results relative to rankings. If you need to maintain your ranking, you need to perform slightly better than your starting position in the field. Of course, winning one big tournament gives your ranking a significant boost.


Also, I like to think of Anirban as a top 50 player because he has been there before and would have been if it wasn't for his recent habit of choking away tournament wins. Just winning the CIMB would have put him 30 spots higher.


Actually, your data is missing a week (it's showing the change in his ranking from week 3 to week 5). After this result, he moved from 86 to 85 (i.e., from week 4 to week 5). In any case, a 1-2 spot drop (which of course didn't happen) does not prove anything nor is it "expected" -- on the contrary when your average goes up your rank should go up more often than not. Your relative rank in a single week depends on how those around you performed plus the impact of losing prior points as the ranking window moves 1 week. Otherwise, his 3.11 points for the week is his 4th highest total in his last 20 starts and if he continues to average 3.11 points per week, his rank will move up from his current level on most weeks.

Agree the big jumps come from the top finishes, and he's not had too many recently. Of course, over the last year he's also been playing a lot on the PGA tour in the US on unfamiliar courses and conditions, so that may have something to do with it as well. The test on where he will reach this year will be when he transitions to playing the PGA tour events back in the US.



Where do you see the ranking after week 4?

While I agree with your thought process, his point average is around 3 (not the ~1.75 you see at the top which is based on time decayed multipliers). And that goes up to 4.32 when he makes the cut.

Concur that the events on the US PGA will decide where he ends up in the ranking, though unlike last year, he does not have a full card anymore.

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Re: 2017 European Tour

Postby arjun2761 » Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:31 pm

@Sinhombre - the results for every week are in the OWGR website and can be accessed by following the "about" link on the top right of their homepage.

Yes, his undecayed average is around 3.00 if you are using the arithmetic mean as the measure. However, for golf rankings, the median is probably a better measure of the average if you are trying to determine if your points will go up after a performance as the points curve for most players is very skewed with a few high points at one edge and a long tail of low or zero points. His 3.11 pts is much higher than his median as it was his 4th best result in his last 20 starts and generally doing better than your median will lift your average assuming you still hit the (few) high points.

Not sure what the significance is of the MC average as it has no particular impact on your ranking. The divisor for the rankings includes all MCs as well as other events (such as on the Asian tour) where you score zero points even if you make the cut.


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