Post-mortem on the Rio Olympics disaster

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Re: Post-mortem on the Rio Olympics disaster

Postby sameerph » Fri Aug 26, 2016 5:07 am

Thanks, Arjun and Sinhombre on rowing. We have won medal in Asian games regularly in rowing but have been far behind world standards.

First of all let us focus on Dattu Bhokanal. He clocked 6:54.96 to win C final at Rio. This is about 10 second slower than the bronze medallist. Gold at the last 2 Asian games went at 7.02+ ( by our own Bajranglal Thakker in 2010). So, he should certainly be a front runner for gold at next Asiad. I am not sure how easy to cut 10-12 seconds of his timing so that he has a chance to get a medal at Tokyo.

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Re: Post-mortem on the Rio Olympics disaster

Postby arjun2761 » Fri Aug 26, 2016 6:25 pm

sameerph wrote:Thanks, Arjun and Sinhombre on rowing. We have won medal in Asian games regularly in rowing but have been far behind world standards.

First of all let us focus on Dattu Bhokanal. He clocked 6:54.96 to win C final at Rio. This is about 10 second slower than the bronze medallist. Gold at the last 2 Asian games went at 7.02+ ( by our own Bajranglal Thakker in 2010). So, he should certainly be a front runner for gold at next Asiad. I am not sure how easy to cut 10-12 seconds of his timing so that he has a chance to get a medal at Tokyo.


I think we'd need a pool of around 2000 physically capable (rather than 20) to find potential world class (i.e., medal winning) rowers. Rowing is fairly unique in that it is a fairly cerebral sport beyond the basic physicality and requires great mental focus and stamina to stay focused on correct technique over a long distance which is typically 2K meters for most regattas. It also requires very good coordination for the quads and eights with an intuitive coxswain who has a very good feel for race strategy. That is why crew is very popular at all the elite universities (e.g., the Ivy's in the US and Oxford/Cambridge etc.). For the individual events, the coordination isn't as important, so you can probably get away by being more physically gifted.

Dattu's time looks pretty decent to me. The US youth title (U-17) was won by someone clocking 7:17 (see link here). Note that timings depend on the water/wind etc. and can't exactly be compared, sort of like in track but is some measure of their capability. I think he would need to get trained somewhere where the best train to improve further. I believe US is better at the quads and eights, so he'd have to figure out where the top singles rowers train.

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Re: Post-mortem on the Rio Olympics disaster

Postby Sin Hombre » Fri Aug 26, 2016 11:58 pm

arjun2761 wrote:
sameerph wrote:Thanks, Arjun and Sinhombre on rowing. We have won medal in Asian games regularly in rowing but have been far behind world standards.

First of all let us focus on Dattu Bhokanal. He clocked 6:54.96 to win C final at Rio. This is about 10 second slower than the bronze medallist. Gold at the last 2 Asian games went at 7.02+ ( by our own Bajranglal Thakker in 2010). So, he should certainly be a front runner for gold at next Asiad. I am not sure how easy to cut 10-12 seconds of his timing so that he has a chance to get a medal at Tokyo.


I think we'd need a pool of around 2000 physically capable (rather than 20) to find potential world class (i.e., medal winning) rowers. Rowing is fairly unique in that it is a fairly cerebral sport beyond the basic physicality and requires great mental focus and stamina to stay focused on correct technique over a long distance which is typically 2K meters for most regattas. It also requires very good coordination for the quads and eights with an intuitive coxswain who has a very good feel for race strategy. That is why crew is very popular at all the elite universities (e.g., the Ivy's in the US and Oxford/Cambridge etc.). For the individual events, the coordination isn't as important, so you can probably get away by being more physically gifted.

Dattu's time looks pretty decent to me. The US youth title (U-17) was won by someone clocking 7:17 (see link here). Note that timings depend on the water/wind etc. and can't exactly be compared, sort of like in track but is some measure of their capability. I think he would need to get trained somewhere where the best train to improve further. I believe US is better at the quads and eights, so he'd have to figure out where the top singles rowers train.


We will get a pool of around 1000 if we can find 20-50 physically capable every year.

That potential pool of 20000 to evaluate is refreshed annually.

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Re: Post-mortem on the Rio Olympics disaster

Postby ankit1407 » Sat Aug 27, 2016 5:23 am

Wonderful piece from Abhinav

Why we are a two - medal nation

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Re: Post-mortem on the Rio Olympics disaster

Postby jaydeep » Sat Aug 27, 2016 5:47 am

Ankit beats me ... :) Thanks for sharing this article, overall interesting views from Abhinav Bindra.

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Re: Post-mortem on the Rio Olympics disaster

Postby sameerph » Sat Aug 27, 2016 6:23 am

Yes, that is an excellent piece by Abhinav. PM has announced to appoint a task force to plan for next 3 Olympics -

To avoid Rio repeat, Prime Minister Narendra Modi announces Task Force to plan for next three Olympic Games

I would like Abhinav Bindra to be the first person on that task force.

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Re: Post-mortem on the Rio Olympics disaster

Postby ankit1407 » Sat Aug 27, 2016 12:32 pm

Given the experience Abhinav had while working on sports bill I doubt he will be willing to put himself through our political system again, lets see..All of this is very common in India where we panels are set up, plans are made but on the ground nothing changes..

On another note

Bindra on board but NRAI's Rio inquiry may miss target

While shooting federation is the first one to act I dont really like how president seems to be believe as if he already knows what went wrong starting from
- personal coach
-private players
- family members as a coach etc..

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Re: Post-mortem on the Rio Olympics disaster

Postby jayakris » Sat Aug 27, 2016 1:11 pm

ankit1407 wrote:On another note
Bindra on board but NRAI's Rio inquiry may miss target
While shooting federation is the first one to act I dont really like how president seems to be believe as if he already knows what went wrong starting from
- personal coach
- private players
- family members as a coach etc..

But, we have to give him credit for selecting Abhinav (and apparently Manisha Malhotra) in his panel. Exactly what caught my attention when we discussed this a couple of days ago in this thread.
jayakris wrote:I also like the panel they have set up to look into the Rio issues, and NRAI's willingness to let somebody like Abhinav Bindra head it (and for considering Manisha Malhotra in it). While Raninder Singh seems to be not too thrilled with other entities running shooters, Manisha is one who clearly has been on the other side, as the CEO of Mittal hampions Trust (which funded Abhinav Bindra).

It seems Sharda Ugra (one of the scribes whom I like a lot) is noticing the same issue, in the article above. She seems puzzled about NRAI's intentions here. I am puzzled too. More than Abhinav, it was the name Manisha Malhotra that struck me. She is one who speaks her mind and certainly has substance in her, just like Abhinav. What's going on? A truly serious and honest introspection by Raninder Singh and NRAI??? But we have to like it. Much better than an an inquiry panel of puppets.

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Re: Post-mortem on the Rio Olympics disaster

Postby ankit1407 » Sat Aug 27, 2016 1:31 pm

Honestly something doesn't add up in this panel yet, read the intentions AB has against the mandate from the federation...at the end of the day panel can make recommendations and it's up to federation to accept it or not..as of now will give the fed benefit of doubt for now..

Another federation which is talking about ownership , our athletic federation chief is all gaga about how good he has done in last few years , he takes ownership bla bla but those who follow the same will know the debacle was not unexpected..

None of these guys will ever quit OR agree to let guys like Viren, Mustaffa get an entry into federation to make it effective..

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Re: Post-mortem on the Rio Olympics disaster

Postby jayakris » Sat Aug 27, 2016 1:43 pm

ankit1407 wrote:Honestly something doesn't add up in this panel yet, read the intentions AB has against the mandate from the federation...at the end of the day panel can make recommendations and it's up to federation to accept it or not..as of now will give the fed benefit of doubt for now..

That is exactly the game here, probably. It's a smart political tactic that isn't unknown. Get the biggest voices against you to tell you what to do, after giving them your view and tying their hands a bit to consider what they wouldn't even consider otherwise. Do it while fully expecting that they will still argue their side, but perhaps a little less vehemently. Then you act like you will be following their recommendations but you go about doing what you intended to do anyway, all the while saying how great the panel was, and shutting up everybody else in the process because you are following the opposition's views, supposedly, after all :)

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Re: Post-mortem on the Rio Olympics disaster

Postby sameerph » Sat Aug 27, 2016 4:39 pm

This is also another good piece on the issue we are discussing from G. Rajaraman -

Look at larger issues that stunt our sporting evolution

Again saying the same thing that the oft repeated story which is repeated and is hammered upon Indian public that our players do not have enough facilities may not be the reason for lack of medals this time.

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Re: Post-mortem on the Rio Olympics disaster

Postby sameerph » Sun Aug 28, 2016 5:45 pm

In this interview, Ashwini Nachappa does not mince words while talking about our performance in athletics in Rio -

'We should think seriously why we are third on doping list'

The government should stop announcing rewards (in any form) for athletes qualifying for Olympics. We’ve gone way past just participation at the Olympics. Let them go there set a national mark or better what they’ve done here and then we can reward them. It’s no longer about participation for us. You look at Ankit Sharma. He jumped 8.19 metres in June (at Almaty, Kazakhstan). But at the Games he was nowhere close (Ankit could only manage 7.67 m in the qualifying). Renjith Maheswary is another example. He jumps 17.30 m here (in Bengaluru on July 11) and then in Rio all he can manage is 16.13 m. How do you explain such performances? Doping is the only reason I can think of. It’s rampant in athletics.

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Re: Post-mortem on the Rio Olympics disaster

Postby Sin Hombre » Sun Aug 28, 2016 5:54 pm

Wow.

Kudos to Ashwini. She is the most honest Indian athlete out there, and has to endure the nonsense from her partner Jwala.

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Re: Post-mortem on the Rio Olympics disaster

Postby jayakris » Sun Aug 28, 2016 5:57 pm

^^^ It was actually Nachappa not Ponnappa. Sameer must have been sleepy, so I fixed it above :) ... I got shocked thinking it was Ponnappa, because she cannot open her mouth after she was unable to do much...

But it is great to see people now really talking about the real issue we have with doping.

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Re: Post-mortem on the Rio Olympics disaster

Postby sameerph » Sun Aug 28, 2016 6:00 pm

Hey, I said Nachappa in the post above. :D Or did you change that ?


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