Asian Games 2014 - Incheon

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Re: Asian Games 2014 - Incheon

Postby Prashant » Thu Oct 09, 2014 3:48 pm

sameerph wrote:Why should Qatar or Bahrain be winning so many golds with imported athletes bought by them ? Should the medals in these games be won by a country with talented athletes or that which has large money bags to buy athletes raised in another country. Isn't that against Olympic spirit ?


I'm not sure about Olympic spirit, but is most certainly isn't against Olympic precedent. Or world sport precedent.

Let me try a different take on Mugu's (excellent) argument above: if the ultimate thing is to be good at world level, then at any level below that, we should welcome the strongest possible opposition so we can see how we measure up.

I don't really care about an Asiad medals tally, fair or unfair. I would happily trade all the Asiad track & field medals we won for a single Gold in Olympics or WC. Maybe even a bronze in Olympics/WC.

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Re: Asian Games 2014 - Incheon

Postby sameerph » Thu Oct 09, 2014 5:07 pm

Prashant wrote:I don't really care about an Asiad medals tally, fair or unfair. I would happily trade all the Asiad track & field medals we won for a single Gold in Olympics or WC. Maybe even a bronze in Olympics/WC.


I would not care if that tradeoff is possible. Otherwise, I do care about an Asiad medals tally.

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Re: Asian Games 2014 - Incheon

Postby Mugundan » Thu Oct 09, 2014 5:43 pm

I do care about an Asiad medals tally, particularly so when someone performs very creditably, like Tintu Luka did in 800 (She should have won it is a different matter, though). Her second best timing ever of 1,59.19 is 13th best for the season (nothing much left of it now) which was by far the best individual performance by an Indian athlete. For comparisons Arokia Rajiv's 400 time of 45.92 is 122nd this season, Poovamma's 400m time of 52.36 is 97th while Annu Rani's Javelin NR of 59.53 is 35th.
If we are able to improve standards because of the "imports", I for one will welcome it even as I understand the anguish that sameer has in seeing Africans showing off their "money bags". That Gopal Saini's 1981 steeplechase mark, set in Tokyo in the Asian championships, still stands at 8,30.88 as the National record and that of Sriram Singh in Montreal, 1976, in the 800m (1,45.77) also stands should be pointers to the standards we have even as we appreciate (rightly so) the efforts of the medal winners including steeplechaser Naveen Kumar. Sajeesh Joseph (800) disappointed.
gbelday's comment about 'spinach'-Indian athletics can never get rid of this habit. There were a few, in my view, who did well (not taking names here for obvious reasons). But more than that there were others who failed to perform or equal their performances at home or season and that had more to do with 'spinach' than anything else, I reckon.

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Re: Asian Games 2014 - Incheon

Postby prasen9 » Sun Oct 12, 2014 8:43 am

sameerph wrote:Mugu, I get your point about our performance.

But, medal tally in Asiad is not totally irrelevant. Why should Qatar or Bahrain be winning so many golds with imported athletes bought by them ? Should the medals in these games be won by a country with talented athletes or that which has large money bags to buy athletes raised in another country.
Isn't that against Olympic spirit ?
Sameer, I get your thinking. However, the issue is not that clear to me. Qatar (and a lot of gulf countries) has 85% expats and 15% native-born individuals. So, who is a Qatari? Qataris are minorities in their own country. Unless we come up with a uniform definition of citizenship, we cannot say what states should do and what not. If someone moved to a country at age 5, is that person eligible? 10? 15? Our system is that we allow states to give citizenship to people using various standards. I am okay with a federated system where we respect each state to decide who their citizen is, although, I do not agree with the way Qatar gives (or more specifically denies) citizenship (to people born in Qatar of a Qatari mother and an expat father).

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Re: Asian Games 2014 - Incheon

Postby prasen9 » Sun Oct 12, 2014 8:46 am

Sin Hombre asked what the point was of participating in cricket. The point would be to increase our medals tally --- hopefully gold --- to offset the soft medals that many countries win in different soft sports or using imports or whatever. If we want to do our best in Asian Games, then we should send our best athletes and in all disciplines where we have a chance to get a medal. Otherwise, what is the point in us participating in squash (men's) either? We know we are more or less the best in Asia. And China should stop sending a whole bunch of athletes who are sure golds.

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Re: Asian Games 2014 - Incheon

Postby RohitG » Sun Oct 12, 2014 11:08 am

could have at-least sent India A or B or u-19

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Re: Asian Games 2014 - Incheon

Postby prasen9 » Mon Oct 13, 2014 7:48 am

Yes. That would also help us evaluate our backbenchers.

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Re: Asian Games 2014 - Incheon

Postby prasen9 » Tue May 16, 2017 1:57 am

I am abusing this thread to post this general post about Asian Games. 2018 is in Indonesia. It was supposed to be in Hanoi, but, got moved to Indonesia.

Interestingly, there are some "large" population countries that have never hosted the Asian Games. Pakistan, Bangladesh, Vietnam, Myanmar, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Uzbekistan, Malayasia, Nepal, Afghanistan are the top 10. I was glad to see Vietnam get the Asian Games, but, they withdrew due to financial concerns. I guess the other four in the top 5 are also too poor to host it? There are security concerns in Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Iraq, I suppose. Saudi should be out because they will cause severe problems for female athletes with their clothing rules, etc. Nepal is dirt-poor and too small.

Among the smaller countries Qatar has gotten one. And, South Korea has got several. I guess being rich helps.

Could Uzbekistan or Malayasia be viable hosts? How is their financial condition?

Anyway, the next three are in Indonesia, China, and Japan. So, the other countries have to wait long before they get one.

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Re: Asian Games 2014 - Incheon

Postby Sin Hombre » Tue May 16, 2017 2:11 am

Malaysia has hosted a CWG and has hosted a F1 GP for 2 decades now so surely can host an Asian games.

I would imagine that SL would be the next (new) South Asian country to get an Asian games.

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Re: Asian Games 2014 - Incheon

Postby sameerph » Tue May 16, 2017 3:31 am

I don't think so. SL has not hosted anything significant at all. I doubt they have the finances to host an Asian games.

Malyasia and Uzbekistan are very much possible. Uzbekistan has hosted good level international events on boxing, wresling, Tennis.

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Re: Asian Games 2014 - Incheon

Postby Sin Hombre » Tue May 16, 2017 3:40 am

SL were very aggressive in trying to host the 2018 CWG and just missed out on the voting to Australia.

SL has a much higher standard of living and HDI than rest of South Asia.

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Re: Asian Games 2014 - Incheon

Postby prasen9 » Tue May 16, 2017 4:41 am

That's not saying much. South Asia is the "dumps". But, yes, if it is to be a South Asian country, if not India, it may be Sri Lanka. Maybe a joint Asian Games with Colombo and Chennai sharing events could be more doable ...

The other obvious choice would be Taiwan. But, I guess China is vetoing that?

Continuing my list, the next five are: Yemen, North Korea, Taiwan, Sri Lanka, Syria. Of these, three are not feasible. No points for guessing which three. Sri Lanka may come up with the money in 2030.


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