Preparing for Prime Minister Narendra Modi

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Re: Preparing for Prime Minister Narendra Modi

Postby prasen9 » Thu Nov 12, 2015 1:30 pm

That's BS. First, Modi did not build all these toilets. Second, not all schools have these toilets anyway. All PR-Man did was that he saw that he could not meet the deadline and decided to just declare that the toilets have been built. Why worry about facts? Fails scrutiny More later.

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Re: Preparing for Prime Minister Narendra Modi

Postby PKBasu » Thu Nov 12, 2015 1:53 pm

I welcome the scrutiny. Just goes to show how difficult transforming India is -- and the gigantic waste that 60 years of Congress rule were. Somebody is trying remarkably hard to get this enormous task done: why the hell didn't previous governments do anything about this? That there are short-cuts being taken is nothing new. That there is scrutiny, which will ensure that the problems are fixed in a second iteration, is all the better.
We have a federal system of government, where sanitation in schools is a state subject. All the more challenging for a national leader to create a movement to get this done. Modi has created such a national movement, addressing a fundamental problem that needed addressing. His predecessors, sadly, did precious nothing about this basic problems. The only previous PM who was engaged in issues that mattered was Narasimha Rao, and to some extent Vajpayee (on two issues -- better telecommunications and roads across the land).

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Re: Preparing for Prime Minister Narendra Modi

Postby ankit1407 » Thu Nov 12, 2015 2:06 pm

For all those thinking he lost Bihar because people saw through development /PR agenda seems to be over estimating the wisdom of avg Bihari voter..

It was always going to be a challenge for him to win bihar against the cast arithmetic, surely he or Amit Shah made blunders along the way only added to the challenge but Modi win was highly unlikely in first place...

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Re: Preparing for Prime Minister Narendra Modi

Postby prasen9 » Thu Nov 12, 2015 3:00 pm

That's right Ankit.

So why did Modi declare that all schools have it when it is clear that we do not? There can be two cases. One, he is a bald-faced liar. The second is that he is surrounded by sycophantic yes-men when everyone but the emperor knows that all schools do not have what is claiming they have. I doubt the latter is the case. Anyway, either he is an idiot or a cheat. I think he is a combination of both.

It is also totally wrong that the previous governments did not build anything but Modi built all the toilets in all the schools.

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Re: Preparing for Prime Minister Narendra Modi

Postby PKBasu » Fri Nov 13, 2015 1:04 am

That half of India's people still have to defecate in the open is an absolute disgrace that has to be laid at the door of all previous governments. This PM has made toilet-building a big part of his agenda -- it was a highlight of his independence day speech last year.

The PM can lead, and set the direction. He can set goals -- which governments and officials will attempt to meet. That some of them cheated (building toilets without adequate water, for instance) is a reflection of India's poor system of governance/bureaucracy. Modi has changed a lot in Delhi since taking office, but nobody can change a whole national culture in 18 months. There is no doubt that a dramatic change for the better has occurred with regard to toilets for boys and girls in all schools. Honing the delivery is the next challenge, but you cannot get there until you start. Previous governments miserably failed on this.
Once toilets are built, children have to be taught to use them -- which one former teacher quoted in prasen9's cited story pointed out. This is not an easy task, nor is the roll-out of banking accounts to all rural households (where also there are lacunae, like many millions of accounts having zero balances, etc.) and extension of health insurance to all. But the communist arguments that prasen9 trots out (about supposed help to businesses at the cost of the people and environment) are not worth an iota. The first thing the Modi government has focused on are universalization of toilets, bank accounts and health insurance -- policies aimed at fundamentally improving the lives of all people, especially the poorest.

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Re: Preparing for Prime Minister Narendra Modi

Postby prasen9 » Fri Nov 13, 2015 5:48 am

I am not saying that this government has not done anything. But the fact remains that this guy mislead the nation claiming something that is not true. He did not say that he has built a lot of toilets. He said that the task of building toilets is complete. It is not. The PM can also stop lying. There is no point building toilets that do not have water and that do not function. I can dig a hole in the ground, put four posts in the ground, wrap a tent around it and call it a toilet. What use is the toilet if there is no water? Basically, only a total fraud will claim something is done without making sure that it is.

That he has approved businesses that pollute without making sure that they pay for the cleanup is a fact. Most of the world must be communists in that they try to ensure now that polluting businesses are not given licenses without a plan for mitigation.

When you do not have a job or food on the table, then having a bank account is useless. The last government attempted to focus on providing jobs and food security to the people. And this total sanitation project Nirmal Bharat. None but his extreme sycophants think that Modi built India and before that nobody did anything. That idea is so ludicrous that there is no point debating that. Maybe we should debate if India even existed before Modi. I think Modi pulled this whole country out of the sea.

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Re: Preparing for Prime Minister Narendra Modi

Postby sameerph » Fri Nov 13, 2015 6:26 am

ankit1407 wrote:For all those thinking he lost Bihar because people saw through development /PR agenda seems to be over estimating the wisdom of avg Bihari voter..

It was always going to be a challenge for him to win bihar against the cast arithmetic, surely he or Amit Shah made blunders along the way only added to the challenge but Modi win was highly unlikely in first place...


True, it was always going to be difficult with the grand alliance formed by Nitish,Lalu and Congress consolidating their votes. But, it is worth noting that BJP got about 5% lower votes than 2014 Lok Sabha elections in Bihar (from 29 to 24%). Else the contest would have been much closer.

That means they lost about 20% of those who voted for them in 2014 elections. I agree with PKB that not projecting a CM candidate was one of the main reasons for that. BJP had so many capable candidates- Sushil Modi, Ravishankar Prasad , Rajeev Pratal Rudy . One of them should have been made the CM candidates which would not have made this election look like between PM and CM.

Other reason was a lot of irresponsible statements by many leaders leading to the intolerance debate/ award Wapsi etc. in the press which created an atmosphere which would have meant a loss of few % votes for BJP.

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Re: Preparing for Prime Minister Narendra Modi

Postby prasen9 » Fri Nov 13, 2015 6:32 am

Here is some data on toilet-building. Toilets I am really baffled by the first figure. We all know Modi went from door to door and built toilets whereas before him everyone just dug a hole in the ground. So, I do not know why that figure shows that in 2012-2013 there were toilets built in India.

This PM just talks much so that his right-wing sycophants will go ahead and run with it as was done in a post in the last page. It takes a lot of digging out data to debunk that. People do not have that much time. So, heck, they believe the lies that this PM spawns. A more modest PM would not make wild claims and thus they were not as effective in the PR-side of things. Long live PR. But at the end of the day, people will vote based on what they see is the difference in their lives. That day will come. If Modi does walk even half the talk, he has a chance. Otherwise, he will be toast.

We will see if all this significantly improves the health or the education status of women and men in India. Certainly, that cannot be done by PR alone. What can be done is that he will no doubt declare that people are better off. If we have the press to scrutinise that and call out the blatant lies and perform a real evaluation, we will know. Let us see.

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Re: Preparing for Prime Minister Narendra Modi

Postby prasen9 » Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:12 am

I am not against development, nor against FDI. I am against giving business a free reign to harm all of us. I am against asking the people to cleanup what big business dirties. Sweeping away of environmental rules Modi this this quietly and using his bullhorn says that he wants Swacch Bharat and will get rid of pollution. That is the dictionary definition of a hypocrite. There are countries all over the world who have systems that are very streamlined wrt giving business permits but who have quite a decent check to prevent the corrupt businesses from damaging our soil, air, and water. We can copy any of these systems or design our own.

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Re: Preparing for Prime Minister Narendra Modi

Postby krinix » Fri Nov 13, 2015 2:02 pm

Who would forget his burning train replica(with smoke coming out) during his election campaign after the 2002 genocide he overlooked?
His 50 crore Girl friend remark, The Maun mohan singh remark, The puppy remark. The epitome of evilness.

I know there is a Bhakth lurking in here somewhere, before he turns rabid. This is my personal take on the Man.

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Re: Preparing for Prime Minister Narendra Modi

Postby sameerph » Fri Nov 13, 2015 4:17 pm

Krinix, why you keep going back to 2002 ? That has been discussed at length in the earlier pages of this thread. The world has moved on. Bring up some new points if you have after he became PM and then it worth discussing.

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Re: Preparing for Prime Minister Narendra Modi

Postby prasen9 » Fri Nov 13, 2015 5:05 pm

Here is one more article. TISS Survey Only about a month and a half before the announcement, there was only 62% of them with functioning toilets in an advanced state like Maharashtra. The MO here is clear. The PM just makes up with stuff (the other explanation is that the PM is utterly clueless, while it may be, I doubt that that is the case) and says it and the rabid followers in the right run with it --- reality be damned. That is the MO of the right. For those of you who have seen George W. Bush's "Mission Accomplished" photo op, this is the same.

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Re: Preparing for Prime Minister Narendra Modi

Postby krinix » Fri Nov 13, 2015 7:05 pm

Another circus at Wembley with tax payers money. PR PR and more PR.

Talks nothing about the Lynching or the spread of poison across india, but like coward hides behind Mahatma and Buddha and talks about tolerance in UK, What a hypocrite and a chronic liar.

Mia Mishharaff Quotes still ring fresh in my head and the Effigfy of the Burning train with special effects of smoke coming out aftermath 2002 that he carried during the Gaurav Yatra.

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Re: Preparing for Prime Minister Narendra Modi

Postby Omkara » Fri Nov 13, 2015 7:55 pm

The Curious Case of Narendra Modi

I am no bhakt but I voted for him. Twice. Once for center and once for state. There was fear of his past. Some of it started coming true. Post Bihar elections there is no fear. From the start it was clear he won't be able to repeat what happened in 2002 intentionally or unintentionally. The media won't allow it to happen. There were enough clues that the new BJP think tank knew it too. Without any hype the BJP lotus turned white from orange. Development was the only word uttered. Victory was certain. Majority might have been a challenge. In came Amit Shah. He gave tickets to Sadhus and Sadhvis. Majority achieved.

A few mistakes Mr. Modi made that has lead to today's situation.

1) He either under estimated the problem or over estimated the teams' capability. They missed the larger pictured and focused on nitty-gritties. But they can solve it. Things should start falling in place if the SEB debt is managed. Help from global growth will be a welcome change.

2) He took on the Delhi coteries head on. Many of these guys were under Congress patronage and made their monies helping create public policy, which in turn helped the Corporates. With their steady income gone, it was only time that a planned counter attack happened. Surprisingly no more award-wapasi post Bihar elections. It stopped after elections, even before results got declared. Has anyone notices that?

3) Taking on corruption head on: no body talks about it but opening of bank accounts and transfer of subsidy directly to bank accounts helped stem systematic leakages of subsidy. This used to be a steady flow of black money in the economy and upon implementation of the process, black money creation has dried down. Consumption demand got affected because of it. Investment demand also got impacted as the best place to park black money is real estate. Go check commercial reality in Chennai and Tier 2 cities. Nobody reports why prices have corrected by more than 20-30%. This meant GDP growth depended more on government spending. In order to manage fiscal deficit, this too was curtailed Jan-March this year.

4) if sensible regular communications lead to Mr Modi in power, the lack of it has lead to this scenario. If they could have communicated points 2 & 3 people would have a better sense of why the economy is taking time to turn around. Monsoon or lack of it didn't help much.

5) While majority was achieved in Lok Sabha the people who got elected were probably not of best help. Infact this mediocre lot has pulled the party down. There are many inside BJP who want Mr. Modi to fail. Further it looks like Mr Modi has chosen his battles and S Parivar is not one of them. He'd rather let them be, and focus on turning around the economy. This has turned into his Achilles heel. People who got impacted due to points 2 & 3 took advantage of it. Seriously the incidents of intolerance just stopped after the Bihar elections. I want to ask Vikram Seth if intolerance is the reason he gave back his award, then why take it in 1985 from a man accused of India's largest post election genocide.

For an average Indian there are 3 possible outcomes. First, Mr Modi turns out to be the devil he's been portrayed as by the media. Second like Bihar opposition gets a sense of his weakness and doesn't allow him work. Third He delivers what he promised. We can only hope for the third option as we are doomed in the first two options. That's why I want Mr Modi to succeed.

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Re: Preparing for Prime Minister Narendra Modi

Postby prasen9 » Fri Nov 13, 2015 8:03 pm

I too want Modi to succeed in things on his agenda that are useful for India as opposed to those that are useful for Modi, the BJP/VHP/RSS, his business friends, etc. Success for Modi and that for India are not the same in that sense. And, I want real institutions cut through his BS to measure actual success. He has done some things. But, so have every government.

Actually, the bank accounts may eventually result in cutting down corruption significantly.


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