Formation of Telangana

As we had often come back to discussing economic benefits/impact of sports I thought it was about time for an economic discussion forum.
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prashanthm
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Re: Formation of Telangana

Postby prashanthm » Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:06 pm

prasen9 wrote:They deserve a chance to live freely and not have their fates dictated by the majority non-Telengana Andhra people.


This is ridiculous!

Going by this hypothesis, everyone wants to live freely and on their own accord and will demand a new country for their home address.... Laughable..... :rofl:

The point is not what people feel. The point is about the facts and there was a committee which came up with a report. If nobody wanted to respect that report, why was the committee even formed?
The SK committee report said that there were other parts of AP which were even less developed. So, what is being done for that region? Why not give a chance to them as well to decide their own fates? They could have made this into a Trifurcation rather than a bifurcation. What stopped them from doing so?
It was as if there was a pre-determined notion to do what center wanted to do irrespective of the report and gain more seats in the region......

The point about 1970's agitation and the prospect of a bifurcation at that point of time being better is agreeable, because the development of the state capital is not due to one single region or their investment. It is a collective effort. And, there is absolutely nothing in terms of finances that need to be given to the other region to develop their own new capital....

WHAT A LOT OF PEOPLE FAIL TO UNDERSTAND BENEATH ALL THIS IS THAT THIS IS ONLY FOR POLITICAL ADVANTAGES AND NOTHING IS GOING TO COME OUT OF THIS TO THE PEOPLE OF EITHER REGIONS....

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Re: Formation of Telangana

Postby prasen9 » Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:23 pm

prashanthm wrote:
prasen9 wrote:They deserve a chance to live freely and not have their fates dictated by the majority non-Telengana Andhra people.


This is ridiculous!
Maybe. That is what I believe. You are free to call it whatever you want.
Going by this hypothesis, everyone wants to live freely and on their own accord and will demand a new country for their home address.... Laughable..... :rofl:
And my position is that if they can manage that, then why not? I think a country provides security to its people that is it. If a part of the country can provide a more tailored solution while providing adequate security, then why not? There is no reason to keep anyone subjugated with a sub-par solution.
The point is not what people feel.
To me that is all that matters. If there is a viable plan for a set of people to be freer than they are, I support it. The demand for a state will always be political. The process may not have been ideal, but, I am interested in the end result. There are reasonably credible claims that have been made by a set of people for quite some time. Maybe it is happening now because of political calculations, but, that is fine with me. I care about the end result. More self-rule is a good thing for me, however, it happens. Why do you think the Telengana people will vote for someone who gives them a state? Because that is what they want. You think they are all stupid that they would reward someone if their lot will not be better due to the act? If more politicians did what is needed to get people's votes and take care of their needs, then democracy wins. I am all for that.

Hyderabad will be the capital of both states for 10 years. Nobody who owns anything in Hyderabad will be told to get out and their property rights will be respected. If Andhra does not have an airport, they can very well use Hyderabad airport. Nobody will stop people from doing so. After 10 years, the next legislature can study the effects and decide whether Hyderabad will continue to be shared, or remain in Telengana, or even become a union territory serving both states. That is not a major intractable issue, imho.

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Re: Formation of Telangana

Postby prashanthm » Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:47 pm

prasen9 wrote:After 10 years, the next legislature can study the effects and decide whether Hyderabad will continue to be shared


Yeah, we all know how the Reservation piece has turned up after 10 years, when it was supposed to be reviewed......

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Re: Formation of Telangana

Postby prasen9 » Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:53 pm

Just because it is reviewed does not mean it has to be changed. The majority did not want reservations to change. So it exists. Actually, Nehru wanted the merger of Telengana and Andhra to be reviewed after 10 years and that did not happen. So these things do move slowly.

Hyderabad was historically under Telengana (the Hyderabad state included Telengana that is) if I am not mistaken. You can have a city serve two states. See Chandigarh. The joining of Telengana and Andhra was a mistake and all that is happening is that that is being reversed.

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Re: Formation of Telangana

Postby Prashant » Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:13 pm

I am curious if there is any evidence on whether the creation of Chattisgarh, Uttarakhand, Jharkhand has been a net positive for the economies of those states. Or a negative for the remainder of Bihar/UP/MP.

I am NOT drawing any political parallels between the creation of those states vs Telangana, just wondering if ultimately more smaller states with ostensibly more unified imperatives give rise to better or worse economics.

Perhaps 13 years is still too short a time to tell.

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Re: Formation of Telangana

Postby prasen9 » Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:24 pm

That would be one measure. There are several other measures such as human rights, human development, etc. It would indeed be very meaningful to see the results of these political experiments with respect to a comprehensive set of metrics. And maybe that would be a deterrent to people who want very small states. Maybe the Centre can even set guidelines for the sizes of states (measured appropriately using multiple metrics) to avoid severe Balkanisation.

It seems the results are mixed: State size The intuitive result would seem to say that if the states are resource poor, then they cannot afford the overhead of the legislature and other things. Maybe they should join hands with other neighbouring states to be one state. If the state is resource-rich such as Chattisgarh, then they are better off being a state on their own. The sample size and time may be too short to say things conclusively but we can draw similar conclusions if we look at countries that have broken up.

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Re: Formation of Telangana

Postby Prashant » Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:05 pm

Thanks for that link - which suggests that Uttarakhand & Chhatisgarh have prospered, but Jharkhand has faltered while Bihar has prospered.

I think that with any of these larger states, we are unlikely to be close to the "small enough for balkanization". The populations here are larger than most countries, so it seems likely to me that smaller subdivisions would be better capable of government. Now, with some of the moves to split up the small northeastern states, I think the balkanization is a possibility.

I agree that a complete set of metrics would be great. For example, between 2001-2013 the literacy rate in Jharkhand is up almost 15%, behind only Bihar among the major states in percentage increase. While in Chhatisgarh it is up about 6%, i.e. one of poorer performing states.

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Re: Formation of Telangana

Postby Sin Hombre » Wed Feb 19, 2014 6:23 pm

prashanthm wrote:
prasen9 wrote:After 10 years, the next legislature can study the effects and decide whether Hyderabad will continue to be shared


Yeah, we all know how the Reservation piece has turned up after 10 years, when it was supposed to be reviewed......


Single biggest black mark of Indian politics.

All this new state creation are just early steps in the ultimate Balkanization of India, which is what the Brits and Europeans expected when they left the subcontinent.

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Re: Formation of Telangana

Postby kujo » Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:39 pm

Sandeep wrote:
What was the rest of Andhra doing when Telengana was being exploited for economic reasons - mute spectators?!

Telangana was being exploited? How? If at all, Telangana prospered in united AP.


Here is your answer (Quoting from Prasen's link in earlier post):

Land exploitation:

AP government has allocated/leased/sold several acres of land in Telangana region at throwaway prices to the relatives of non-Telangana politicians. Also, Andhra businessmen own these groups and they mostly employ the people from their region in the white-collar jobs. The government in the name of the SEZs has acquired several acres of land in the neighboring districts of Hyderabad at a minimum rate from the poor farmers and handed them over to Andhra businessmen. The Andhra businessmen are now selling the same land at an exorbitant price to the outsiders.

Just as an example, the state government has allocated the WAQF lands (which were earlier allotted for minority community development) to the real estate firm Lanco owned by congress MP from Andhra region. The dispute is still pending the
court. This is the prime land in the city. Lanco today has started a 7200 crore worth real estate project called Lanco hills.

Exploitation through irrigation Projects
The state government in recent years has sold the government properties worth several thousand crores in the Telangana region to raise funds for the JalaYagnam projects. The state government emphasized on completing the Pothireddypadu and
Polavaram projects. One of them didn’t even have environmental permissions, other one was completed by breaking all rules of Bachawat Tribunal. Both these projects benefit Andhra people. This is nothing but exploiting one regions resources
and using them for the benefit of the other region.

The SLBC (Srisailam Left Bank Canal), which provides drinking and irrigation water to the fluoride affected areas of the Nalgonda district is in construction since two decades and still not completed. Money given as mobilization advances to contractors, who are from Andhra region, was squandered in managing elections and also the same money was diverted into real estate which was booming at that time, this impacted projects progress in Telangana region.

The site selection of the projects like Nagarjuna Sagar and Polavaram is debatable. The Nagarjuna Sagar project catchment area is entirely in the Telangana region but the dam is constructed close to the bordering Andhra region so that the canal system works to the advantage of Andhra districts. The Telangana region lost many villages and limestone quarries for the catchment area, but has to confine itself to meager amount of the share in the dam water. The Andhra region on the other hand hasn’t lost even a single acre of land for catchment area but is getting a lion’s share of the canal water. The same is true with the case of Polavaram project, which is now under construction. Polavaram project once finished would submerge villages in Khammam district of Telangana region but would irrigate the bordering Andhra districts like East and West Godavari and Vijayanagaram.

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Re: Formation of Telangana

Postby kujo » Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:49 pm

Agreed, that there was lot of investments made in the city of Hyderabad for infrastructure development. And agreed that Congress should be ashamed of how they went about doing this bifurcation.


You want a share of Hyderabad and a share of it's prosperity but don't want to assume responsibility to the exploitation of Telangana?! when an upstate farmer wants water for irrigation and you ignore and build dams strategically to avoid providing the benefits of a dam OR never build the canals that were promised.... This is their lifeline, they will revolt - what do you expect?

Now the dams are in Telangana, which will be a separate state - they will control the outflows and you have to go to the Interstate tribunal for "just" sharing....

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Re: Formation of Telangana

Postby prashanthm » Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:56 pm

In the above exploitation quote, replace all 'Andhra' with 'Govt beneficiaries' (be it Congress or TDP). Will you agree then?

The reason for people not getting jobs is not because of other region people coming in and claiming them....
I am guessing that the lands and other rights weren't just given away, the politicians who made it happen had a benefit due to it, Corruption anyone?

The bottom line is, that the same thing will happen irrespective of how many ever smaller pieces the state is divided into? The main issue is corruption and unless politicians are made accountable and punished for their corrupt practices, these things will go on.......

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Re: Formation of Telangana

Postby prashanthm » Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:59 pm

prasen9 wrote:
prashanthm wrote:The point is not what people feel.
To me that is all that matters.


Sure, if everyone feels the same, then I would go with you too.. If there are two different opinions, how would you go with one option over the other though?

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Re: Formation of Telangana

Postby Varma » Thu Feb 20, 2014 7:10 am


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Re: Formation of Telangana

Postby Sandeep » Thu Feb 20, 2014 7:50 am

I am for smaller states for administrative convenience. No doubt about it. But there should be a plan and basis on which states are created. It shouldn't be done on pure demand from a particular region.political party. I think my colony should be a state because, self rule will help us develop better. So based on the demand from the majority of people from my colony, should it be a state?

Hyderabad will be the capital of both states for 10 years. Nobody who owns anything in Hyderabad will be told to get out and their property rights will be respected


What is the joint capital for when the revenue can't be shared. To use assembly and secretariat? What kind of a joke is this? 60% of AP population lives in Seemandhra and you are only giving it 40% of the income? What sense does it make? Can you explain Prasen?

Comparing against the Nizam's conditions are laughable.


It is just to highlight the difference between what Telangana was and was Telangana is today. Obviously you haven't gone through Sri krishna committee report. http://pib.nic.in/archieve/others/2011/ ... 010502.pdf , go through this report before making unnecessary allegations on the people from other part of Andhra Pradesh. And the pink you provided only gives a selfish outlook of a person who ever has come up with those points.

Just as an example, the state government has allocated the WAQF lands (which were earlier allotted for minority community development) to the real estate firm Lanco owned by congress MP from Andhra region. The dispute is still pending the court. This is the prime land in the city. Lanco today has started a 7200 crore worth real estate project called Lanco hills.


Shameful claim and one sided story. Was it allotted or Lanco bought it in open auction? Lanco bought it in public auction. The Charlotte guy is painting it as if the land is allotted to an MP from Andhra and as if he is the only beneficiary. Here is the Hindu link on the dispute http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp ... 282499.ece . Infosys, Wipro, Microsoft, Amazon etc etc were all given lands in this area and all are in dispute. Is it wrong to give land to these companies. How conveniently the guy skipped others and only pointed out Lanco. And Lanco is not some minuscule unknown company. The company was founded in 1986 and is a billion dollar company! These opportunistic idiots couldn't even see the employment these companies generate but instead try to show a skewed picture to the entire world.

The state government in recent years has sold the government properties worth several thousand crores in the Telangana region to raise funds for the JalaYagnam projects.


Another argument put up only for convenience. It is true that the lands were sold but they were sold in Hyderabad, capital of AP to fund the irrigation projects. He is making it out as if all lands in Telangana are sold. How conveniently he only mentioned about Pothireddypadu and Polavaram, absolute idiot whoever has written it. Here is a map for projects started under Jalayagnam https://mapsengine.google.com/map/edit? ... GXrGZGl7uw. Are the confined to Andhra only. Here is a link for Jalayagnam website. http://jalayagnam.org/index1.php

I don't even need to explain about the rest of the farce in that website. That is something which is happening in every state and through out India. Soil and water pollution in Hyderabad it seems! Doesn't that joker know there are other people also living in Hyderabad apart from Telangana and Seemandhra people. How is it injustice only to Telangana?

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Re: Formation of Telangana

Postby ankit1407 » Thu Feb 20, 2014 3:21 pm

All said and done, India gets its 29th state in the form of Telangana.... Rajya Sabha today passed the bill.

For once MP's worked till 8 O' clock to pass a bill.. Rest in peace Andhra Pradesh..


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