Formation of Telangana

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Re: Formation of Telangana

Postby kujo » Sun Feb 09, 2014 4:45 am

So, Feb 11 or 12 when the Telangana-bill comes up in Parliament is the decisive moment now....

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Re: Formation of Telangana

Postby arjun2761 » Sun Feb 09, 2014 9:27 pm

prasen9 wrote:This is a complex matter.... Federalism should not mean anarchism. For example, a family should be free to decide what their kids should learn. But, you can make education required for a certain number of years or some core world-wide curricular guidelines. Localities should conduct their business in whatever language they want to and when two localities differ wrt their language, they should choose whatever language they want to transact in. There can be armies, militias, and police at different levels providing security. Inter-state highways can be the center's doing whereas state roads are the work of the state and local roads of the municipality. Etc. There have been reams written about forms of government and I cannot do justice to provide a coherent answer in limited time on this forum. I am just trying to state the principles that I believe (and no one needs to agree) should be the basis of governance.


The principles espoused above are pretty close to the US Federalism principles but even that has proven to be pretty tough to delineate at times as we saw with the US civil war....

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Re: Formation of Telangana

Postby prasen9 » Mon Feb 10, 2014 10:31 pm

I am saying that these are my guiding principles and any system that comes closest to it is what I would like. I don't know if it is close to the U.S. system. The U.S. does have a reasonably strong central government. I have not studied these things much --- so my thoughts may be half-baked, uninformed, or inconsistent. But, I do like the Swiss system. Here is a post that sums up some things I agree with: Swiss vs. U.S. federal systems

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Re: Formation of Telangana

Postby prasen9 » Mon Feb 10, 2014 10:37 pm

Sandeep wrote:The center will be violating the spirit of the Constitution and harming the federal set-up by saying it doesn't matter what the Andhra Pradesh state assembly says and by imposing its decisions.
This is an interesting statement that I want to understand better. What in the spirit of the Constitution is being violated? How do we avoid the tyranny of the majority and uphold minority rights if we always have to go by what the state assembly says?

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Re: Formation of Telangana

Postby arjun2761 » Tue Feb 11, 2014 4:49 pm

prasen9 wrote:I am saying that these are my guiding principles and any system that comes closest to it is what I would like. I don't know if it is close to the U.S. system. The U.S. does have a reasonably strong central government. I have not studied these things much --- so my thoughts may be half-baked, uninformed, or inconsistent. But, I do like the Swiss system. Here is a post that sums up some things I agree with: Swiss vs. U.S. federal systems


Yes, that has how it has evolved over time but the US constitution actually reserves all powers to the states except those specifically enumerated to Federal government. However, over time the courts have broadly interpreted some of these constitutional enumerations to expand Federal power based on the interstate commerce clause and the civil rights acts, for example, and now the Federal government has significant power in many matters which were purely state matters for the first 130 years of the US.

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Re: Formation of Telangana

Postby prasen9 » Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:57 pm

Right.

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Re: Formation of Telangana

Postby Sandeep » Fri Feb 14, 2014 6:05 am

prasen9 wrote:
Sandeep wrote:The center will be violating the spirit of the Constitution and harming the federal set-up by saying it doesn't matter what the Andhra Pradesh state assembly says and by imposing its decisions.
This is an interesting statement that I want to understand better. What in the spirit of the Constitution is being violated? How do we avoid the tyranny of the majority and uphold minority rights if we always have to go by what the state assembly says?


What is the point of views of assembly if it is not even discussed? You should at least look at the merits of the issues. You got to convince people before dividing. Dividing a state is not just drawing a line, what is happening in AP is Congress has divided people too. This is very very dangerous which led to what happened in parliament yesterday. For all those who are ashamed by the pepper spray incident should be even more ashamed that they have never responded to the democratic protests of crores of people from Andhra Pradesh. Central government has been bull dozing each and every opinion of ours over the last 4 months and the rest of India was just watching tamasha.

First it was the Sri Krishna Committee report which was thrown in the dust bin, then central government promised to hear our grievances which never happened, then they talked about Anthony committee visiting AP, listening to both sides and solve the issue. This never happened. It has reached such a level that some people are even questioning if central government thinks we are part of India or not!! Central government has been bulldozing our views, MLAs, MPs and even Chief Minister and not a single politician from any state opposed such behavior.

For the Congress people questioning Rajagopal over pepper spray incident, can they answer how can they introduce such an important bill in Parliament in 10 seconds when the pepper was being sprayed. This is cynical politics played by Sonia. I am angry very very angry at how things are going with AP division. What is irritating is to see the puffed up arrogance of congress inspite of all that has happened. They still think and want to pass the bill at any cost for the piddly 10 MP seats they are aiming.

I am not ashamed at the pepper spray incident at all, what I am really ashamed is the way entire country has been a mute spectator for what Congress is doing to Andhra Pradesh for political reasons. Horrible

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Re: Formation of Telangana

Postby Sandeep » Fri Feb 14, 2014 6:18 am

If you guys haven't read the AP reorganization bill please do read it. It is such a joke and full of legal complications. Doesn't congress know that constitution doesn't has a provision for joint capital unless it is UT? Doesn't Congress know that the law and order in Hyderabad can't be under the control of Governor. Constitution doesn't have such a provision. Doesn't congress know that the residual AP will have a budget deficit of 8000 crores if Hyderabad's revenue is not shared? Doesn't Congress know that the new state Telangana is staring at a power deficit of 10,000 MW?

How do you distribute pensions, debt, other assets like APSRTC etc. Shouldn't the bill address these issues? Shame, utter shame!

This will be an unprecedented elections for Congress in AP. Sonia should remember that this is a state which has given Congress 41 out of 42 MPs in the elections after emergency in which even Indira Gandhi lost, this is the state which was crucial for UPA being in power for 10 years from 2004 with 29 and 33 MPs. In 2014 Congress will be relegated to less than 5 seats and even these 5 seats in Telangana if in alliance with TRS. They will draw a blank in Seemandhra in MPs. I want to see Sonia bleed looking at these results. I want to see the arrogance of Digivjay Singh come down on that day.

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Re: Formation of Telangana

Postby Sandeep » Fri Feb 14, 2014 6:29 am

http://m.rediff.com/news/report/exclusi ... 140213.htm

What can be more shameful than this??

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Re: Formation of Telangana

Postby kujo » Fri Feb 14, 2014 3:24 pm

First off, it is a joke how this division of AP is being executed by congress. It is a lesson in how not to do bifurcation of a state.

If opinion from crores of people from Seema-Andhra counts, so does the wishes of crores of people from Telangana.

I am not ashamed at the pepper spray incident at all, what I am really ashamed is the way entire country has been a mute spectator for what Congress is doing to Andhra Pradesh for political reasons. Horrible

What was the rest of Andhra doing when Telengana was being exploited for economic reasons - mute spectators?!

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Re: Formation of Telangana

Postby ankit1407 » Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:22 pm

Closed-door' Lok Sabha opens way for Telangana

Significantly, there was no live telecast by Lok Sabha TV for 90 minutes during clause by clause consideration of the bill before its passage.


so the joke continues, both the rulling party and main opposition are to be blamed equally....

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Re: Formation of Telangana

Postby prasen9 » Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:04 pm

Blamed for what Ankit?

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Re: Formation of Telangana

Postby ankit1407 » Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:22 pm

sorry the post might have suggested that it is to blame the blackout of media etc, however point was the way the bill was so called Discussed and passed.. Its just pure plain case of vote bank politics.

It was funny reading how they got so called physically stronger MP's to circle around the speaker and Home minister just to make sure the bill is tabled first and today all of the discussion and approval hardly lasted an hour...Congress knows this is the last week of 15th LOK SABHA and last chance to at least get 15-16 or whatever seats Telangana region has to offer, at the same time for BJP well they can at least hope to get some gain out of it given that last time the seat count was 0.

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Re: Formation of Telangana

Postby Sandeep » Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:39 am

What was the rest of Andhra doing when Telengana was being exploited for economic reasons - mute spectators?!


Telangana was being exploited? How? If at all, Telangana prospered in united AP. What was Telangana's fate under Nizam's rule? It was full of uneducated people and feudal system was at its peak! Have you forgotten Naxalite incidents in Telangana? Today entire Telangana is free from Naxalites! What is the exploitation you are talking?

Do you know that there was a Jai Telangana and Jai Andhra movements in 1972! If at all the state was divided it should have been done then, not now when 70% of the revenue comes from Hyderabad. Some straight questions for you

Is Telangana really the new state formed? Which of the two states need a new capital? Which of the two states need financial assistance? Which of the two states need new infrastructure? Which of the two states need a new high court? Which of the two states need new airport?

Now judge for yourself if Telangana is the new state formed or Andhra Pradesh? Why are the majority of AP deprived of the existing assetts of the state of Andhra Pradesh?

Congress should be ashamed for this division. And the entire nation should be too for allowing this farce to happen

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Re: Formation of Telangana

Postby prasen9 » Wed Feb 19, 2014 2:45 pm

If Telengana was not being exploited, then why do they want to be separate? Here is what they claim; http://charlottetelangana.com/yt.html The people of Telengana think that self-rule will let them develop better. Whether it is right or wrong, they have a right of self-rule. Comparing against the Nizam's conditions are laughable. Do you think a politician can come to a village in Bengal and say "You are doing much better than you were under the British. So shut up and accept my corruption."? We need to demand better. The people there think that they can do better. They deserve a chance to live freely and not have their fates dictated by the majority non-Telengana Andhra people.


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