The Cheapest Car Ever Made

As we had often come back to discussing economic benefits/impact of sports I thought it was about time for an economic discussion forum.
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prasen9
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Re: The Cheapest Car Ever Made

Postby prasen9 » Thu Aug 07, 2008 6:53 pm

The middlemen from the CPI(M) have made their money.  No, Jay, they will not negotiate with the farmers anymore, I think.  The way it will work out is one of two ways.  Either there will be severe attacks on the Tata factory and Tata will abandon the project.  Or the farmers will not succeed and go away.  I do not think there will be a financial solution.  Just my guess, given the high profile, it will most possible be the latter.

I guess nobody asked the question thus far.  Okay, what has been done is bad.  But, what should we do now?  I do not want the Tatas to go away.  I want the factory to be there.  I do not want Mamata to succeed, but, I was just wishing that this was handled better and some poor guys did not have to suffer.  Mamata is exploiting their plight for some publicity.  This woman was the worst sports minister ever and has done nothing but harm for WB.  The one high-profile minister from WB before her was ABA Gani Khan Chaudhury.  He built the Kolkata Metro and improved railways.  What does Mamata have to show?  Bandhs and losses of life.

---P[With malice towards capitalists and socialists alike]M

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Re: The Cheapest Car Ever Made

Postby Atithee » Thu Aug 07, 2008 7:32 pm

Can't we all just get along?  :roll:

Since we've pretty much vented on the land issue, perhaps we should revert to the title of the thread now, e.g., advantages/disadvantages of the nano itself?

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Re: The Cheapest Car Ever Made

Postby prasen9 » Fri Aug 08, 2008 6:10 am

Disadvantages are safety features and pollution.  But pollution in cities should be controlled like they do in London by imposing a daily city-driving congestion fee.  Advantages are cost, fuel-efficiency. See, it is not that  sexy to argue about these things.  And by the way, we do get along.  I am trying to get my wife to understand (over the last 13 years) that arguments are part of life and nothing personal; it is merely a different viewpoint.  So, I appreciate your views Atithee, sometimes it is too much fun to argue.

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Re: The Cheapest Car Ever Made

Postby Atithee » Fri Aug 08, 2008 6:19 am

prasen9 wrote:Disadvantages are safety features and pollution.  But pollution in cities should be controlled like they do in London by imposing a daily city-driving congestion fee.  Advantages are cost, fuel-efficiency. See, it is not that  sexy to argue about these things.  And by the way, we do get along.  I am trying to get my wife to understand (over the last 13 years) that arguments are part of life and nothing personal; it is merely a different viewpoint.  So, I appreciate your views Atithee, sometimes it is too much fun to argue.


Oh! we do.  I meant that for Mamata, Tatas, farmers, etc.

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Re: The Cheapest Car Ever Made

Postby x_y_Z_a » Fri Aug 22, 2008 4:43 pm


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Re: The Cheapest Car Ever Made

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Re: The Cheapest Car Ever Made

Postby prasen9 » Sat Aug 23, 2008 4:16 am

Part of the problem is that the CPI(M) has used its goons ruthlessly to get what Buddha wants.  Who raped and burnt Tapasi Malik, an 18-year old activist and why?  The water is so murky now that things look bleak.  A settlement where Tata or the government pays the other landowners an extra amount as final settlement would be desirable.  I think Trinamul is just going to do this seige to get some token concessions from the WB government and then declare victory before the Pujas and leave.  The poor farmers who lost their lands for a pittance will get nothing more.

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Re: The Cheapest Car Ever Made

Postby Atithee » Sat Aug 23, 2008 3:34 pm

prasen9 wrote:Part of the problem is that the CPI(M) has used its goons ruthlessly to get what Buddha wants.  Who raped and burnt Tapasi Malik, an 18-year old activist and why?  The water is so murky now that things look bleak.  A settlement where Tata or the government pays the other landowners an extra amount as final settlement would be desirable.  I think Trinamul is just going to do this seige to get some token concessions from the WB government and then declare victory before the Pujas and leave.  The poor farmers who lost their lands for a pittance will get nothing more.


Could someone point me to the "pittance" amount and a fair market value relative to this pittance that the farmers received?

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Re: The Cheapest Car Ever Made

Postby prasen9 » Sat Aug 23, 2008 3:39 pm

This is what Tata paid the government.  Officially, the government bought the land and then leased it to Tata.  This is what the government paid.  We will never know the fair market value of the land because a fair and free market mechanism was not used to negotiate its fair market value.
Last edited by prasen9 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 3:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Cheapest Car Ever Made

Postby jayakris » Sat Aug 23, 2008 3:58 pm

As per the two BusinessIndia articles,

The government paid about Rs. 12 lakhs per acre for the 1000 acres they aquired

Tata makes lease payments of about 1.2 crore per year over the next 10 years or so for 650 acres.  That is under Rs. 20,000 per acre lease payment.

I don't know about the price that the state paid, but that sounds like an extremely sweet lease to me!

Really?  Tata is making only 1 crore lease payment per year for 650 acres of land?

Jay

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Re: The Cheapest Car Ever Made

Postby prasen9 » Sat Aug 23, 2008 4:13 pm

The government gave a good deal to the Tatas.  I criticize the government and not the Tatas.  I think the people should take it out on the government and not sabotage the factory because now it does more harm than good.  Given the sweetheart deal they got from the government, maybe the Tatas can shell out some more money to pay off the farmers as a one-off deal to get them off their back and resolve the issue.  But, I think the Tatas know that they will have to pay not much more and the agitation will die down after its political masters have achieved their showboating goals, so they will not pay anymore unilaterally.  If I were the Tatas and going solely by my business objective, I would not have paid anything more.  It is the government's fault at having mismanaged the whole situation.

It is a travesty that Bengal has to choose between Tweedle Dum and Tweedle Dee every election cycle.
Last edited by prasen9 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 4:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Cheapest Car Ever Made

Postby PKBasu » Mon Aug 25, 2008 12:32 am

Buddhadeb is burdened with the legacy of his party's thuggery, and Mamata is an intransigent Luddite who appears not to understand the meaning of the word compromise (at least with the Tatas, if not with the government). I am not optimistic about the project's future in Bengal -- and it will be a tragedy if this project is obliged to move. When will Bengal's politicians (actually, note that the Tatas left Bangladesh after their grandiose plans there fell apart for similar reasons) come to their senses?

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Re: The Cheapest Car Ever Made

Postby prasen9 » Mon Aug 25, 2008 12:52 am

Buddhadeb is making the right noises.  I think the problem can be settled using some imaginative programs.  Or at least the major force behind the storm can be taken out.  If the people are given a decent source of income (not lumpsum) that depends upon the continuation of the project, and it is reasonably lucrative enough, they will take it.  Much as Mamata tries to stir the pot, except some party goons fighting it out, the movement will lose its steam.  The goons can be handled by the police.

Maybe in the future, the government should decouple use of eminent domain from the companies by completing the buyout of the land and setting up an industrial zone and getting over with the demonstrations etc. and then leasing it out.  That way the wrath will not primarily be on the company.  I know the land will be lying barren for a longer time and money will be tied up, but, the situation will perhaps be handled better.  In this case, Tata got a sweatheart deal, but, they did not do anything wrong.  The government was the one which used heavy handed tactics.

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Re: The Cheapest Car Ever Made

Postby kujo » Mon Aug 25, 2008 12:53 am

jayakris wrote:As per the two BusinessIndia articles,

The government paid about Rs. 12 lakhs per acre for the 1000 acres they aquired

Tata makes lease payments of about 1.2 crore per year over the next 10 years or so for 650 acres.  That is under Rs. 20,000 per acre lease payment.


In the last 2-3 years, land prices in India have doubled, tripled or quadrupled if you look in the outskirts of many major cities. Current fair market prices for the land in Singur (about 25 Kms outside of Kolkata) could be around 50 lakhs to 1 crore per acre. Even considering the date on which WB govt notified about the land acquisitions (June 2006), a rate of 12 lakhs per acre is probably half of what the fair market prices would have been, 2 years back...

The insult would be these lease payments as agreed to, between Tata company and WB govt. 1 crore per year for 650 acres in the first 5 years?! Wow, that is as sweet a deal as you can get.

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Re: The Cheapest Car Ever Made

Postby jayakris » Mon Aug 25, 2008 2:27 am

That was what I was thinking too, kujo, as I said above.  I could not believe my eyes .. It was a total sell-off to Tata, unless the WB givernment can show some reasons that there is sufficient societal benefits to counter-balance (which they may have shown)

Jay
Last edited by jayakris on Mon Aug 25, 2008 6:07 am, edited 1 time in total.


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