Poverty in India ...

As we had often come back to discussing economic benefits/impact of sports I thought it was about time for an economic discussion forum.
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Poverty in India ...

Postby jaydeep » Thu Dec 09, 2004 4:29 am

ILO - International Labour Organisation

What do u think??? Is that the case or again some rossy picture is painting ??? It would be interesting to get input from PKB on this issue ... He is a right man to quote on it.

Check article on MSN.

http://autofeed.msn.co.in/pandorav3/output/News/723c9274-5c87-4637-9598-29afdd703b56.aspx

Jaydeep.

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ILO study says Poverty level reduced in India ...

Postby India1989 » Sat Oct 08, 2005 1:52 am

of course poverty is going down in India.

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Re: ILO study says Poverty level reduced in India ...

Postby prasen9 » Thu Feb 02, 2017 6:22 pm

An interesting article on universal basic pay. UBI I would be happy to see all sorts of useless subsidies like fertilizer, cooking gas, petrol, etc. to be cut and a UBI implemented. Let's see if we can cut through the corruption especially if Aadhar works to help subsidies reach people as it says it will.

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Re: ILO study says Poverty level reduced in India ...

Postby Omkara » Fri Feb 03, 2017 3:56 am

I disagree on subsidy part. I feel there is a huge segment of people who need that. I don't need it. So don't give me.

Of all people employed, organised job market in India caters to only a handful. Absolute number is huge but so is our population. So if a guy uses subsidized LPG to sell Vada Pav and make a life for himself, is the subsidy really bad.

India has 140 million hectares of farmland and 140 million farmers at work. In totality, average holding is ~1 hectare per farmer. About 75% of farmers own land < 1 hectare, of which ~50% own less than 0.5 hectare. If we look into farm economics, <1 hectare holding makes no economic sense. So 75% of farmers are growing atleast one crop for own consumption i.e. rather paying Rs 15 per kilo of rice, grow it at Rs 2-3/ kilo. For these guys cost of growing the crop is higher than what he earns selling the crop. So he grows it to consume. Whats the harm giving him subsidy, so atleast he gets to eat.

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Re: ILO study says Poverty level reduced in India ...

Postby prasen9 » Fri Feb 03, 2017 1:22 pm

The point is the way the subsidy is distributed. If you read the article, it calls for a universal basic income. Instead of subsidizing fertilizers, most of which goes to very large farmers and farming businesses and into the pockets of corrupt district-level officials, send the money directly to the farmer. That way, he or she can use it to buy fertilizers if he wants or to buy clothes or whatever. A UBI will reduce the poverty from 20% to 0.5% --- or at least the projection. More of the money will go to the farmers who can barely eat in your example.

Subsidies are inefficient ways of achieving our goals. If you subsidize electricity, people keep the lights on. They waste. So, part of the government subsidy is just going down the drain. The question really is how to make the most efficient use of precious government rupees so that the really poor people actually get the help. I know of a case where there were free condoms distributed. Some people collected tons of it and converted into rubber and sold it in the market to make money. If you have STDs or if despite this waste the condom distribution achieves a significant goal, then by all means accept the waste and continue. But, we should always look for more efficient means of delivery and use of welfare money.

I am willing to hear arguments from the other side. As with any complex social policy, one is never sure as to what will really happen in the field. The only subsidy I like is the 100 day employment for everyone.

[Can a moderator please change the subject to "Poverty in India"? I did not find the appropriate thread and so I reused this one.]

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Re: ILO study says Poverty level reduced in India ...

Postby jayakris » Fri Feb 03, 2017 8:47 pm

prasen9 wrote:Can a moderator please change the subject to "Poverty in India"? I did not find the appropriate thread and so I reused this one.

Done.

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Re: Poverty in India ...

Postby Sin Hombre » Sat Feb 04, 2017 3:12 am

What are the numbers prasen? India cannot afford any more taxation on the small percentage of people and corporations who actually pay them.

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Re: Poverty in India ...

Postby prasen9 » Sat Feb 04, 2017 7:40 pm

Sin Hombre, I am not asking for more taxes. Take out some of the fertilizer subsidies, etc. and replace it with Universal Basic Income. There are 950 different types of subsidies: food, water, etc. For a country like India with water shortages, it is asinine to subsidize water. The idea is to recycle money from these subsidies into cash subsidies. It can be made revenue-neutral. Read the article linked above. Or else, means-test and make it revenue neutral. I am proposing to move "bad" subsidies to more economically efficient welfare.

Thanks, Jay!

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Re: Poverty in India ...

Postby prasen9 » Sun Feb 19, 2017 6:05 pm

And talking about subsidies, why on earth is a poor country providing Haj subsidies? We should use the money to build schools and colleges. Of all people, I would think Mr. Modi would agree that this is a nonsensical waste of money and get rid of it. If he did things like this, a broader spectrum of India would support him. I have immense respect for the Supreme Court. It has tackled environmental nonsense, subsidy nonsense, BCCI nonsense. The Supreme Court has said that this subsidy should go by 2022. Mr. Modi can get it gone now.

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Re: Poverty in India ...

Postby Sin Hombre » Sun Feb 19, 2017 10:05 pm

"leftists" and "liberals" from India will have a meltdown if Modi took away the Haj subsidies. It would be described as yet another aspect of Hindu nationalism.

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Re: Poverty in India ...

Postby prasen9 » Sun Feb 19, 2017 10:37 pm

There is some number of people who will always complain. That does not prevent Modi from enabling businesses to pollute the environment, jail student leaders, etc. So, he is not afraid of the leftists. A substantial number of leftists are truly secular folks unlike the bhakts. So, they will not complain. Anyway, what this shows is that we have to depend upon the Supreme Court to do the work of cleaning up the country. The politicians are useless.

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Re: Poverty in India ...

Postby Sin Hombre » Mon Feb 20, 2017 3:18 am

The SC historically has been able to rise above partisan politics in India previously. That said, their interruptions with the BCCI is certainly a case of taking their power too far.

I would trust the Congress to get more done than "leftists" in India. Most of them are only good for creating tamasha on causes which they do not really care about in any case.

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Re: Poverty in India ...

Postby prasen9 » Mon Feb 20, 2017 3:41 am

There is no real left party or leftist individual capable of doing anything in India (per my limited knowledge). When I was using leftists, I was thinking of left-leaning people. I know of several who are truly secular and would want the government not to subsidize the Haj or for that matter any religious activity. Some of them may take up the matter of discrimination against Muslims when it happens. But, that does not mean that they would not welcome elimination of the Haj subsidy, common civil code across the nation, etc. The opposition always barks against the government whether the idea is good or bad. We should not pay any attention to them, but, use them to reign in a government that is doing something atrocious. I consider the Congress centre-left though. I don't trust the Congress to get anything done. Nor do I trust the left parties to get anything done. There has to be someone capable who needs to emerge from the centre-left and form a coalition to get things done.

I like it that they got rid of pretty much everyone in the BCCI. What do you not like? Or is it just a matter of principle?

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Re: Poverty in India ...

Postby Sin Hombre » Mon Feb 20, 2017 4:59 am

Both a matter of principle and having perspective.

BCCI is the most professionally run sporting organization in the country by a mile, and over eager judicial activism here with the large backlog of cases is silly. And a net negative to the Indian economy, as can be seen by the attempts of the ECB and PCB to take $200m in ICC revenues away from India.

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Re: Poverty in India ...

Postby prasen9 » Mon Feb 20, 2017 4:51 pm

I can understand as a matter of principle. However, the BCCI was a cesspool of corruption that was holding the game back. Corruption which involved match fixing, etc., to a point where the integrity of the public product was at risk. The Supreme Court stepped in to clean out the corruption. In some instances, they may have indeed gone overboard and that will be fixed.

The BCCI is run by idiots. It should just say "no thanks" to the ICC and just organize bilateral series on its own or a longer-duration IPL. Make the money and keep the money. Pay the opposition what would seem reasonable per market prices. That should be what it does. It can pay and employ umpires on its own and not care about the ICC. The Indian government should allow competing leagues and let the best league win. BCCI's not giving NOCs to Indian players should be quashed using antitrust measures. I do not like monopolies.


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