Highest rankings of all the former Indian players please????

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PKBasu
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Re: Highest rankings of all the former Indian players please

Postby PKBasu » Wed Jul 06, 2011 6:23 am

Jaideep Mukerjea made the PQF (last-16) stage at Wimbledon (singles) four times, so he was certainly a top-20 player at least at some point in his career (among amateurs; implying top-30 or 35 among all players). Premjit Lall made R3 at a Slam in the Open era. ATP rankings only began in 1973, when they were winding down their careers, so their rankings in these lists are heavily under-stated. It is a pity that rankings did not exist in the first five years of the Open era, when Jaideep and Premjit were in their prime.

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Re: Highest rankings of all the former Indian players please

Postby ihtrak » Sat Aug 11, 2012 8:27 pm

there are some changes in the best rankings lately,

Somdev - 62
Yuki - 189
Vishnu - 292
Jeevan-398

Sriram and Saketh are also all set to enter top-400..

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Re: Highest rankings of all the former Indian players please

Postby sameerph » Wed Jul 31, 2013 4:57 pm

We have not updated this thread for a while . Updating this thread now as quite a few current players have gone into top 400 & some in top 300.

Vijay Amritraj - 16
Ramesh Krishnan - 23
Somdev Devvarman - 62
Leander Paes- 73
Anand Amritraj - 74
Sashi Menon - 87
Jasjit Singh - 89
Premjit Lall - 105
Jaidip Mukherjea - 120
Zeeshan Ali - 126
Ramanathan Krishnan -136
Prakash Amritraj - 154
Akshai Misra - 158
Srinivas Vasudevan – 166
Yuki Bhambri - 174
Bhanu Nunna - 199 (before turning pro, he was called Nunna Bhanumurthy)
Ashok Amritraj - 201
Joykumar Royappa - 207
Rohan Bopanna - 213
Mahesh Bhupathi - 217
Chiradeep Mukherjea - 221 (amateur; never turned pro, but made R2 at Wimbledon)
Harsh Mankad – 222
Vishnu Vardhan -262
Saketh Myneni - 263
Karan Rastogi – 284
Sanam Singh - 293
Nandan Bal - 309
Srinath Prahlad - 310
Sriram Balaji -313
Bidyut Goswami - 315
Jeevan Neduncheziyan - 330
Sunil Kumar Sipaeya - 340
Enrico Piperno -373
Shankar Krishnan -373
Syed Fazaluddin - 396


Currently active players are highlighted in bold. So, now overall there are 35 players who have gone into top 400 of which 8 are currently active players. 3 of the active players, Somdev, Prakash & Yuki have broken into top 200 ( Somdev in top 100). Hopefully, at least 2 of the 5 others make it to top 200 in next 2-3 years & Somdev goes to top 50 , Yuki & Prakash to top 100 at some time in future although looks a bit stiff with Prakash being 29 already & Yuki is beset with injuries.

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Re: Highest rankings of all the former Indian players please

Postby prasen9 » Fri Jan 03, 2014 5:32 pm

This is now updated list of all time highest ATP rankings for Indian players (qual: top-200) -

Vijay Amritraj - 16
Ramesh Krishnan - 23
Somdev Devvarman - 63
Leander Paes- 73
Anand Amritraj - 74
Sashi Menon - 87
Jasjit Singh - 89
Premjit Lall - 105
Jaidip Mukherjea - 120
Zeeshan Ali - 126
Ramanathan Krishnan -136
Prakash Amritraj - 154
Akshai Misra - 158
Srinivas Vasudevan - 166
Yuki Bhambri - 174
Bhanu Nunna - 199 (before turning pro, he was called Nunna Bhanumurthy)

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Re: Highest rankings of all the former Indian players please

Postby punarayan » Sat Jan 11, 2014 3:15 pm

With no basis, but bias, my ranking would start with the Great Ramanathan, Ramesh the Surgeon, Indomitable Lee, Vijay, Mahesh, Som, Lall and Mukherjea, in that order. I think the respect of one's peers is a good measures and Ramanathan was accepted as one of the cream in his time. Lee has to be admired for his dedication to his craft, while Vijay did not stay in shape for a few years in the late '70s. As I said there is no numerical basis to this ranking, but personal admiration.

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Re: Highest rankings of all the former Indian players please

Postby suresh » Sat Jan 11, 2014 11:26 pm

Hesh ahead of Som? We are talking only singles here, right?

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Re: Highest rankings of all the former Indian players please

Postby Prashant » Sun Jan 12, 2014 1:13 am

Punanarayan, that is an interesting subjective ranking. I could never ever rank Ramesh over Vijay. Its odd that you talk about Vijay not staying in shape, because in my opinion Ramesh played his entire career not in shape...

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Re: Highest rankings of all the former Indian players please

Postby punarayan » Sun Jan 12, 2014 2:54 am

My sense of admiration is not based on singles or doubles, but a general sense of achievement, style, dedication etc. Vijay after the initial burst on the scene in 1973 was I believe, at least for a while distracted by the stardom. The 70s were a heady time for tennis, with new money and popularity. I never saw Ramesh be anything but professional in his approach. He was always available for practice with the other pros, from what I read and was dedicated. Ramesh was born out of shape and stayed that way, but not for not trying! He was naturally slow, but his footwork was minimal, but effective. He was not tall, but covered the court with anticipation. A tennis lover's delight! Vijay was the bigger star, but Ramesh was the guy to admire for his love of the game. The pros came out to see Ramesh play and there can be no bigger compliment. And he beat some good players at singles in his time.

I have Hesh ahead of Som, simply because of winning a lot, even if it is only at doubles and at a high level. Hesh has a trophy case to be admired. As I said, this is based on bias!

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Re: Highest rankings of all the former Indian players please

Postby rajitghosh » Mon Jan 13, 2014 7:05 am

I am assuming you are not including the pre-war players in this. It would start looking very different then. But I guess in singles if we leave out pre-war, purely in terms of statistics and achievements it would be Ramanathan, Vijay, Ramesh, Lee, Jaidip, Premjit, Naresh Kumar, Somdev, Dilip Bose and Sumant Mishra. Of course, if we include pre-war the list would be more like Ramanathan, Vijay, Ramesh, SM Jacob (represented India but basically a Britisher), Ghaus, Lee, Jaidip, Premjit, AH Fyzee, Sleem. India had a very strong set of players in the 1920s. The doubles list is easier to compile- Lee, Hesh, Vijay, Anand, Rohan, Jaidip, Premjit, Ramanathan, Naresh, Sumant Mishra. Of course, we can prepare a separate women's list also where apart from Sania, names like Rita Davar, the 2 Nirupamas (Vaidyanathan and Mankad) and a few others will feature.

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Re: Highest rankings of all the former Indian players please

Postby arjun2761 » Tue Feb 04, 2014 4:42 pm

Understand Punarayan has his list based on personal bias. However, from what I've read, Vijay was greatly admired as a pro and very popular on the circuit (with his peers) as well as with fans. IIRC, he later was an ATP president or represented all the pros in some capacity.

He was also a threat to beat the top-10 on a consistent basis which Ramesh, for instance, was not. I recall visiting Wimbledon in 1985 when Vijay was past his prime and only had to ask once (from a random spectator) to find out where he was playing - his name recognition was very high even when he was on the downside of his career. He was also a Davis Cup warrior for India and played some of his best matches in India colors -- a mantle that Lee carried on later.

Yes, he underachieved his talent if you consider that he had top-5 talent but that is a really lofty standard for an Indian. In my assessment, he is by far the best (and most universally admired even among his peers) Indian singles player in the open era....

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Re: Highest rankings of all the former Indian players please

Postby punarayan » Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:54 am

Arjun, Agree with all that you said, but my bias is derived from watching Vijay go "Hollywood" a bit in the '70s. I made my way to Springfield, Mass on a dark night to see the strong pairing of the brothers, but the effort was lackadasical and it looked like a tanking to get out of town. I think Amrithraj Productions was more on their mind as reflected on the shirts worn, post-match. Vijay's popularity is huge based on his personality, and accomplishments, but Ramesh was all tennis all the time and for that he has my respect. I've met Vijay on numerous occasions and he was always the gentleman and engaging. This is not a knock on Vijay, but a biased shout out for Ramesh, the so called slow unathletic player that slayed or held his own with the likes of McEnroe, Conners, Wilander etc. A touring pro of the first order! The greatest feeling I've ever had, was watch Ramesh stroll on to the court, ask for the ball in his high pitched voice and proceed to stroke the ball to all corners, effortlessly. Pure genius!

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Re: Highest rankings of all the former Indian players please

Postby Prashant » Wed Feb 05, 2014 3:11 pm

All of the top guys went "Hollywood" in the 1970s because it was the only way they could make a decent amount of money. The tour didn't pay squat. Connors earned vastly more from the masala matches than he ever earned on tour, as did guys like Vilas & Gerulaitis. So, I think Vijay was merely representative of his era. There was a change with much better tour organization & pay by the time Ramesh came into his prime. Even though their careers overlapped, Ramesh played in an era where many more pros took tennis a lot more seriously, playing fewer exhibitions & "money" matches than regular tour matches.

By the way, I too am not knocking either of these guys for their choices - just pointing out that even in the short time between their primes, the game changed very significantly.

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Re: Highest rankings of all the former Indian players please

Postby PKBasu » Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:02 pm

On the punarayan vs Arjun debate, I would just make a few additional points. I agree that Vijay was -- over the course of his career -- a slightly better singles player than Ramesh. His longevity alone (17 consecutive appearances at Wimbledon) was considerably better than Ramesh's. And Vijay made the QF at Wimbledon twice (1973 and 1981), while Ramesh did so once (1986). Both Vijay and Ramesh made the QF at the US Open twice (Vijay in 1973 and 1974, Ramesh in 1981 and 1987). There is an asterisk against the 1973 Wimbledon achievement, of course, because 19 of the top 20 players boycotted Wimbledon in 1973, so their Slam records were roughly equal. Vijay rarely played at the Australian Open (where his best performance was R2 in 1984), while Ramesh had a big win there -- beating then #1 (and holder of the AO, USO and FO titles) Mats Wilander in 1989; that was the fourth time he made R3 at the AO. At the FO, both Vijay and Ramesh made R3 once each.

It is incorrect to say that Ramesh was not a threat to the top-10. He beat Wilander twice, and also had wins over Edberg, Connors, Cash, Gomez, Agassi, Gerulaitis, Mecir, Nystrom (at Wimbledon and the US Open), Kriek (at the US Open), Gene Mayer (USO), Pioline (in their only match), Chesnokov (3-2 record, including a win at the USO) and regularly troubled McEnroe (who had great regard for Ramesh, despite that famous abusive outburst at the USO QF in 1981, when Ramesh was a set and a break up). He never played against Becker or Vilas. Ramesh never managed to beat Lendl, but Vijay too had a 0-6 record against Lendl.

Vijay had a great record against Connors (6-6), but always lost to him at the Slams. He did beat a young Borg at the US Open (1974), but otherwise never really threatened the top players at the two Slams he played (Wimbledon and the US Open), apart from the two epic losses to Borg and Connors from winning positions. At Wimbledon, Vijay tended to disappoint -- with a string of R2 singles defeats. Of course, Vijay was a vastly superior doubles player. And he made two Davis Cup finals, against one final and one SF for Ramesh; it has to be admitted that the 1987 run to the final was mainly due to Ramesh (apart from the epic win over Jaite in R1 for Vijay, which I had the pleasure of witnessing; in 1993, similarly, the R1 win over Switzerland in Calcutta was all Ramesh -- and I had the pleasure of watching that too, especially the silken thrashing of Hlasek). So yes, Vijay had the slight edge over Ramesh as a singles player -- although not quite as wide a gulf as is commonly believed in India (and as Arjun asserts). And when I went to the US Open in 1993, Ramesh was just as well known there -- and anyone I asked could tell me where to find him playing.

The career head-to-head record between Vijay and Ramesh is even at 2-2; Ramesh won on hard courts and clay, Vijay on grass and indoors (an accurate reflection of their relative abilities on the surfaces). Of course, Vijay's personality is infinitely more charming than Ramesh's, and his post-career has been vastly more impressive too.

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Re: Highest rankings of all the former Indian players please

Postby Atithee » Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:38 am

PKB, this is a great and balanced analysis. Thanks. I enjoy such posts from you.

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Re: Highest rankings of all the former Indian players please

Postby PKBasu » Tue Feb 25, 2014 4:38 am

Just adding to that, Ramesh's career head-to-head records against some other top-10 players of his time (and two just outside top-10): 3-2 against Bill Scanlon (who had a career-high of 9), 3-3 against Johan Kriek (career-high of 7, and two AO titles), 2-1 against Joakim Nystrom (career-high of #7, who was a top-10 seed at both Slams at which he lost to Ramesh), 2-2 against Miloslav Mecir (career-high of #4), 3-2 against Andrei Chesnokov (career-high of #9), 1-1 against Pat Cash (high of #4, and Wimby champ eight months after the loss to Ramesh), 2-4 against Tomas Smid (high of #11, and he was ranked #14 when he first lost to Ramesh), 2-6 against Wilander (who was ranked #1 and #4 on the two occasions he lost to Ramesh), 1-2 against Andres Gomez (career-high of 4, and FO champ, he was ranked 10 when he lost to Ramesh), 1-2 against Gerulaitis (career high of 3 and AO champ), 1-2 against Tim Mayotte (career-high of #7), 1-4 against Hlasek (career-high of #7), 2-1 against Paul Annacone (career-high of 12, with both wins for Ramesh coming at the USO), 1-2 against Michael Chang (career high of #2, who lost to Ramesh a few months before becoming FO champ).

Only Lendl I think could be sure he would beat Ramesh (or Vijay) whenever they played. McEnroe beat him all 10 times they played, but always in very close sets (and usually dropping one set along the way). Ramesh had a 1-7 record against Connors, but took a set off him on each of the two times they played in a Slam.

The overall picture is of a solid player who was a threat to the top-10 of his time, and was a top-40 player on a pretty consistent basis for a whole decade. Like punarayan, many tennis fans (especially in the US) loved the fluidity of his silken strokeplay -- and especially because he seemed to play the way most people did at home and in their clubs those days, without seeming to hammer the ball and drip sweat while hunkering around court; his amazing reflexes, terrific court sense, classically effective backhand and smooth touch endeared him to a legion of fans. I don't think his stellar career is as well appreciated in India as those of his father Ramanathan (clearly a cut above every other Indian -- and Asian -- male player so far) and Vijay Amritraj, the finest Indian men's pro of the Open era.


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