Age Fraud in AITA (Indian Junior Tennis)

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hate.age.fraud
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Re: Age Fraud in AITA (Indian Junior Tennis)

Postby hate.age.fraud » Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:29 am

gbelday wrote:Aren't the rules same all over the world? 2002 born kids can play U14 USTA tournaments (until the month before their birth month). So, according to the USTA rules, someone who is Nov 2002 born can play U14 until Oct 2002.

In any case, keep the fight on! It's very important that these cheaters are exposed. As Varma and Sameer mentioned above, Kamesh is great! You could also maybe reach out to Sunil Yajaman and get his advice! Good luck.


No, in AITA, the birth year is the only thing that counts.

Thanks for the encouragement. Can we find out how to reach Kamesh? He does not have a Twitter account or a public email. Anybody know? How about Sunil Yajaman's contact info? Thanks!!

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Re: Age Fraud in AITA (Indian Junior Tennis)

Postby hate.age.fraud » Wed Feb 22, 2017 11:00 am

Varma wrote:
hate.age.fraud wrote:...For most others, we can't even find such public sources that talk about grade, etc.

What do you mean by that? These kids don't talk about what grade they are in and which School they go to? Even though you are competing at various tournaments, isn't it common that you mingle with other kids a little bit and exchange basic information like this? Just curious, that's all.

- Varma


Everyone is careful about talking about their grade. Most conversations are about other things! However, kids do say things about OTHER kids ... like "X is in 10th grade", etc. Parents and coaches are even more careful! Sometimes we overhear these players mocking each other "kitne saal khaya?", so it's an open secret.

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Re: Age Fraud in AITA (Indian Junior Tennis)

Postby hate.age.fraud » Wed Feb 22, 2017 12:01 pm

Example 2: Rudra Kapoor from Lucknow, official birth year 2003, now playing U14, was playing U12 in 2010:
http://archive.indianexpress.com/news/t ... sh/630827/

TOI article below refers to him being in 9th grade in Jan 2016
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 486679.cms

You should see what he looks like! I wonder if the "Road to Wimbledon" organizers will take a hard line with AITA, but they haven't in past years, so we are not hopeful.

We know that none of this is EVIDENCE...

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Re: Age Fraud in AITA (Indian Junior Tennis)

Postby gbelday » Wed Feb 22, 2017 2:10 pm

gbelday wrote:Aren't the rules same all over the world? 2002 born kids can play U14 USTA tournaments (until the month before their birth month). So, according to the USTA rules, someone who is Nov 2002 born can play U14 until Oct 2002.


That should read Oct 2017, not Oct 2002 :)

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Re: Age Fraud in AITA (Indian Junior Tennis)

Postby sameerph » Wed Feb 22, 2017 3:42 pm

hate.age.fraud wrote:
gbelday wrote:Aren't the rules same all over the world? 2002 born kids can play U14 USTA tournaments (until the month before their birth month). So, according to the USTA rules, someone who is Nov 2002 born can play U14 until Oct 2002.

In any case, keep the fight on! It's very important that these cheaters are exposed. As Varma and Sameer mentioned above, Kamesh is great! You could also maybe reach out to Sunil Yajaman and get his advice! Good luck.

No, in AITA, the birth year is the only thing that counts.

It is the same in ITF juniors. Only the year counts. For instance all those born in 1998 became ineligible to play ITF juniors at the start of 2017.

Is it different with USTA?

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Re: Age Fraud in AITA (Indian Junior Tennis)

Postby Prashant » Wed Feb 22, 2017 3:49 pm

Sameer the USTA rule does indeed go by birth month rather than year, i.e. as Gautam explains them.

Many sports in the US are starting to transition to a calendar year cutoff though - soccer has done so for all levels in the last 12 months.

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Re: Age Fraud in AITA (Indian Junior Tennis)

Postby arjun2761 » Thu Feb 23, 2017 6:37 pm

Prashant wrote:Sameer the USTA rule does indeed go by birth month rather than year, i.e. as Gautam explains them.

Many sports in the US are starting to transition to a calendar year cutoff though - soccer has done so for all levels in the last 12 months.


Also, US youth soccer was previously also a yearly cutoff except that it was based on school year. That has now now transitioned to the calendar year cutoff.

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Re: Age Fraud in AITA (Indian Junior Tennis)

Postby eastind » Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:37 am

It seems the situation has not changed for the past decade. I tries my bit by filing RTI applications and had AITA mention that Age frauds would be penalised in their website but they have conveniently shifted the onus onto the Government.
You just have to persevere. If you have the love for the game and the talent you just might make it in the open category.
Good Luck

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Re: Age Fraud in AITA (Indian Junior Tennis)

Postby arjun2761 » Tue Mar 07, 2017 7:21 pm

I'm not sure that the truly talented are that affected by this as they will likely be as good as kids that are a year or two older. in other words, if you can't beat kids that are one year older, you are unlikely to make it in the open category. I think the biggest challenge, especially for the boys, is the transition from the juniors to the mens level. I am not endorsing age fraud in any way as it definitely impacts many. However, the elite players who have the talent to make (say the top 300 at the ATP level) at the open level are probably able to play through the cheaters even at the junior levels and should not be discouraged.

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Re: Age Fraud in AITA (Indian Junior Tennis)

Postby Varma » Tue Mar 07, 2017 7:46 pm

If a talented 12 year old is competing against a handful of (possibly talented) 14 year olds, and they all progress through the consecutive age groups for the next 4-6 years, that 12 year old might never be able to be ranked higher enough the way he should be. Obviously he won't get the accolades and recognition he deserves and the perks that come with it...be it in the form of sponsorship, or the limelight that is required for him to be taken a note of. These things in turn could potentially curb his development and possibly demoralize him enough to not realize his true potential. One might argue that the tougher kids will prevail over these hurdles, but in reality they should not be dealing with this crap at all.

- Varma

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Re: Age Fraud in AITA (Indian Junior Tennis)

Postby hate.age.fraud » Fri Mar 10, 2017 6:53 am

Varma, you have hit it right. The unusual situation is that MOST (> 80% of the top 10) of the top ranked in U-14 are age cheaters. That means that round after round, you are facing players who are 2-3 years older (and stronger and more mentally mature). We are not all Nadal or Serena to brush these things off. It's difficult and frustrating.

We understand that this is not new. But what's new is the magnitude of the age cheating (lots of them, many >2 years+ real age), but also the fact that these are pretty good players at at their stated age. So, to say that good players should be able to beat someone older than them, doesn't hold water.

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Re: Age Fraud in AITA (Indian Junior Tennis)

Postby hate.age.fraud » Fri Mar 10, 2017 7:02 am

arjun2761 wrote:I'm not sure that the truly talented are that affected by this as they will likely be as good as kids that are a year or two older. in other words, if you can't beat kids that are one year older, you are unlikely to make it in the open category. I think the biggest challenge, especially for the boys, is the transition from the juniors to the mens level. I am not endorsing age fraud in any way as it definitely impacts many. However, the elite players who have the talent to make (say the top 300 at the ATP level) at the open level are probably able to play through the cheaters even at the junior levels and should not be discouraged.


Yes and no. Big difference between 12 and 14/15 (and perhaps not too much between 16 and 18) in boys.

A level playing field is all that we ask for. If our parents had the MONEY and the CONFIDENCE, we would just avoid the entire junior tennis scene. But that is not practical is it -- Lakhs to travel and compete.

But if you are losing in QF and SF to big age cheaters, you start wondering...shouldn't you be studying for your exams instead?

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Re: Age Fraud in AITA (Indian Junior Tennis)

Postby gbelday » Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:48 pm

arjun2761 wrote:I'm not sure that the truly talented are that affected by this as they will likely be as good as kids that are a year or two older. in other words, if you can't beat kids that are one year older, you are unlikely to make it in the open category. I think the biggest challenge, especially for the boys, is the transition from the juniors to the mens level. I am not endorsing age fraud in any way as it definitely impacts many. However, the elite players who have the talent to make (say the top 300 at the ATP level) at the open level are probably able to play through the cheaters even at the junior levels and should not be discouraged.


I agree to some extent with what arjun says (the part about the truly talented kids). However, we shouldn't just focus on the truly talented kids. I am not sure how it works in India but here in the US, there are quotas for each section for the higher level national tournaments. Only the top kids from each section get to compete at the nationals (in each of the 12s, 14, 16s and 18s age group). For example, for some of the national tournaments, the Eastern section that my son is part of only sends top 9 kids to the nationals. So if you factor in the age fraud, the truly deserving kids are losing an opportunity to play the higher level tournaments. There is another category of national tournaments where the qualification is purely based on the national ranking (i.e., the top 32 or top 64 national ranking holders). But if kids don't get to play the section designated national tournaments (the ones that pick the top section kids), it's tough to garner national points. Also, every kid matures at a different age - some peak early, some are late bloomers. By having to worry about this age fraud, it adds another dimension that they shouldn't really have to worry about.

The qualification criteria may be different in India. I am curious to know what criteria is used to determine which kids get to compete in the national tournaments.

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Re: Age Fraud in AITA (Indian Junior Tennis)

Postby arjun2761 » Mon Mar 13, 2017 5:14 pm

Just to be clear that I do not think age cheating is fair or should be condoned. It certainly deprives one of a fair chance and possibly hampers late bloomers from getting the competition they deserve to continue to develop at a slower rate but just enough to continue on to eventually be late bloomers.

My point was that that the truly elite, i.e., the likes of Yuki, Sumit, LP etc. (perhaps even RamK and Sasi) were probably good enough to overcome 1-2 year age cheaters especially once they are 15-16. Most likely the ones who are cheating on age aren't particularly good to begin with. As we see in the junior Davis Cup results posted our u-16 team was just beaten by the likes of Hong Kong who have absolutely no tennis pedigree. Unless, Hong Kong is also full of age cheaters, our presumably older, age cheating U-16 are being beaten by other Asian kids who are presumably of the correct age (i.e., our presumably age cheating 18 year old is being beaten by a 16 year old Hong Kong kid). Therefore, this should not be stopping our elite talent from coming through although it could negatively impact our late bloomers. Some of our late bloomers (Rohan, Saketh, and perhaps even Somdev) really only bloomed well after they were in the junior age range.

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Re: Age Fraud in AITA (Indian Junior Tennis)

Postby gbelday » Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:03 pm

arjun, I agree with you completely. Honestly, I am not really sure it's that difficult an issue to fix (considering that this is such a long standing issue in India). Just need someone with the will to drive towards a solution...


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