The olympics team pairing thread

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Re: The olympics team pairing thread

Postby kujo » Fri Jun 29, 2012 3:22 pm

arjun2761 wrote:Did you really mean "Rasam?" :D

You will have to ask krinix about it! :)

krinix wrote:Yuki should have restrained from speaking about such things, it will not go down well with Lee Worshiping AITA.
Lee has at least another year or two, and if he is going to dictate terms like he has always, yuki will be hot soup.

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Re: The olympics team pairing thread

Postby vk2052 » Fri Jun 29, 2012 3:42 pm

kujo I fully agree with ur sentiments about Lee. He is in a mess of his own creation. Actually, when he broke up with mahesh towards the end of last year, he was over confident that rb and hesh had no choice but to partner lee, because out of the three only lee is deuce court and other two ad court. He was sure that hesh and rb would never combine because both were ad court. Thats where he erred. hesh and rb made adjustments and did pretty well, though could not win a grand slam.

He has been dictating terms since 2004, when he replaced ramesh krishnan as captain of indian team. His own coterie- dr paes, sanjay singh and nandan bal, were the team management and all decisions- right or wrong were taken by them. He himself played 5th match against pakistan in 2006, though rb should have played. He played himself once again in 5th match against kazakstan, when actually karan should have played. No wonder that was his last singles match for India.

He is a man who thinks only he is right and all others are idiots. Unfortunately AITA has been blindly supporting him. Even now, though the right choice would have been mahesh-sania, they have put lee- sania.- just to satisfy his ego.

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Re: The olympics team pairing thread

Postby ankit1407 » Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:17 pm

Leanders Title wins
(Doubles) Win 50
Grand Slam (7)
ATP World Tour Finals (0)
ATP World Tour Masters 1000 (12)
ATP World Tour 500 Series (6)
ATP World Tour 250 Series (25)

Mahesh's Title wins
Wins (50)
Grand Slam (4)
ATP World Tour Finals (0)
ATP World Tour Masters 1000 (15)
ATP World Tour 500 Series (7)
ATP World Tour 250 Series (24)

Am just talking about doubles, after all thats what matters right now.

To say no one comes remotely close to his achievement is just running away from truth, of-course he has a singles olympic medal which no one ever came close to winning it..so 50 Title + 0 Medal (Olympic) against 50 Titles + 1 medal cant be called meaningless.

He has had some big victories in Davis cup but that there has been many times he was just selfish and just played himself when any other player could have won as well. Do i sound like a MB fan ? oh well hell No but just did not like people treating LP as GOD or something...you just cant have everything coming to you the way you want it, after all they dont play under the umbrella of India always on the tour, its always for individual glory.

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Re: The olympics team pairing thread

Postby arjun2761 » Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:14 pm

Am just talking about doubles, after all thats what matters right now.


As far as doubles greatness is concerned, the first measuring stick is Mens Doubles GS. Here LP leads 7-4. If you remove the one LP-MB won together, the lead is even more stark at 4-1.

Agree that most of the other doubles measures are pretty even and MB is legitimately a MxD great!

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Re: London Olympics 2012 - Tennis

Postby PKBasu » Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:18 pm

Moved this post from the Olymoics thread - as this is a bit more on the opinions on the teams (want to keep the other thread closer to news/developments). Mod, Jay
sameerph wrote:Vishnu has entered $15K futures in Kazakhstan in the week starting July 9 & this is a final confirmed entry list where withdrawal deadline is over. So, he cannot now withdraw from there & play at Newport ATP which is in the same week even if LP wants play there. ( I am not sure though if he can withdraw from here & only play doubles at Newport.- Jay can confirm this)

It seems that as of now Vishnu is following his earlier schedule of playing 2 futures in Kazakhstan followed by $125K challanger there. He can still change his plans for week starting July 16 if LP & him can play some ATP tournament in that week - they will need a wild card though. I think the best course would be for LP to come down & play the $125K Astana challenger with Vishnu . That will be only a week before Olympics but there will be at least some tournament play for the pair before the big event.


It would be a remarkable sacrifice for Leander to make at this stage of his career. But if anyone can make such a sacrifice, it is him. We easily forget how much he sacrificed and compromised in order to build the partnership with Bhupathi.

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Re: The olympics team pairing thread

Postby ankit1407 » Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:18 pm

Well LP was not responsible for winning all alone for the ones he won with MB...ofcourse LP has a better record than MB when it comes to winning GS doubles but all i was trying to say is its not like MB is nobody on the circuit...nothing more nothing less...

I personally after all this kindergarden stuff dont rate anyone of them high anyways so for me I will wait to see if one of them win a Medal and other loses out what will happen next :p

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Re: The olympics team pairing thread

Postby ankit1407 » Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:24 pm

While the highest ranked Indian doubles player Leander Paes on Friday finally came out to confirm his partnership with much lower ranked Vishnu Vardhan in the Olympic Games, he also set a highly poor example of how a senior should behave.

While saying that he was happy to pair up with Vardhan, ranked 307 in men's doubles, Leander almost ridiculed his future partner I the same breath saying that he did not even know if the "kid" has grass court shoes.

In fact Leander went on to say that Vardhan has never been to Wimbledon and that as a senior partner, he would try to arrange proper grass court shoes for his less experienced and lowly ranked partner
.


As per TOI Report...

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Re: The olympics team pairing thread

Postby PKBasu » Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:29 pm

As Vijay Amritraj says, the yardstick of a tennis player is singles achievement. Doubles is gravy. MxD is diluted gravy.

Leander is streets ahead of MB in singles -- cities and countries ahead. MB's doubles achievements were zero until LP plucked him from obscurity (just do a search for MB's NCAA doubles partner Ali Hamadeh to find out how far he got in pro tennis), and made him a world-class doubles player. MB achieved more with MxD, and those achievements went to his head. LP stuck to his partnership with Martina out of respect and sentiment, otherwise he would have had many more MxD titles.

The dispute this time was primarily about Men's Doubles. No matter how you cut it, Leander is much the better Men's Doubles player. MB was stupid enough to pick RB over LP, and is now sitting pathetically atop his high-horse over this decision. The more I think about, the more I realize that MB is being utterly petty. Yes, LP was unnecessarily ruthless in splitting at the end of last year -- but he made it very clear then that teaming up for the Olympics was still very much something he wanted to do. MB's play had deteriorated, but has revived since then (so the purpose of the split has been well-served). But MB-RB have not set the Thames on fire with their tennis partnership -- so making such a massive issue, globalizing it by shouting from every rooftop they can find, is bizarrely silly.

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Re: The olympics team pairing thread

Postby ankit1407 » Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:37 pm

So every one has to deal with what LP thinks is right ? He thinks for the first 15 days of a month I will go play with you and later with some one else and after 4 months we will meet again ? Why do you think a professional player has to always accept it...i dont get it ....

Yes LP was the one who got MB on the stage so what MB just have to keep repeating 3 idiots dialogue of TOEHFA KABOOL KARO all his life ?

my point is and was always was LP might be a better player than MB but saying MB is no one and if he is choosing something which he believe is right cant be termed as ridiculous..in any case LP MB would not have won a medal just teaming up before Olympic how much you agree or not they could not do it in 4 previous attempts where arguably the competition was less tougher than the one its going to be this time around..Yes you can say there is no evidence to prove what am saying is right but than there is no evidence to prove it other way around too...

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Re: London Olympics 2012 - Tennis

Postby sameerph » Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:48 pm

PKBasu wrote:
sameerph wrote:I think the best course would be for LP to come down & play the $125K Astana challenger with Vishnu . That will be only a week before Olympics but there will be at least some tournament play for the pair before the big event.

It would be a remarkable sacrifice for Leander to make at this stage of his career. But if anyone can make such a sacrifice, it is him. We easily forget how much he sacrificed and compromised in order to build the partnership with Bhupathi.

I would not say it will be such a big sacrifice for LP to go & play 1 challenger with Vishnu. Anyway,there are no big tournaments between Wimbledon & Olympics. So, It will be good for LP too to play such an event as than they will not go totally unprepared for Olympics. It will be great of course if he can get a wild card with Vishnu for an ATP. But, I guess he will have to take decision fast & plan well with Vishnu. If he waits for Wimbledon to get over & then start planning , then it may not happen as Vishnu would have entered some other tournaments.

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Re: The olympics team pairing thread

Postby rajorshi » Fri Jun 29, 2012 7:38 pm

I can't believe the veterans of this forum are involved in a debate about who is greater between the two. More maturity is expected. And I guess, we are forgetting that of the 50 titles Leander has won, more than 50% came with Bhupathi and vice-versa.

And since we are talking about career stats, no matter how much we condescend on mixed doubles, the fact remains that Bhupathi's mxd dbls record is way above any other players, active or retired. When Bhupathi completed his career slam in mixed doubles with Hingis in 2006, Paes was yet to win a doubles grand slam with anyone apart from Bhupathi. Paes had 6 or 7 slams then, Bhups had 10. It is in the same year that Paes won his 4th doubles slam with Martin Damn.

And Martina is the very reason Paes is still playing. She was there for him when the latter was diagnosed with neurocysticercosis. How can you forget that she did not play the US Open mixed doubles in 2003 with any other player because Paes was still recovering? They may be sentimental but they reached 4 finals, winning 2 of them so they did not stick together for nothing. Paes does well with serve-and-volley women players and thats why his other titles came with Raymond and Black. He does not have any other noteworthy mixed doubles partnerships.

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Re: The olympics team pairing thread

Postby arjun2761 » Fri Jun 29, 2012 7:52 pm

rajorshi wrote:I can't believe the veterans of this forum are involved in a debate about who is greater between the two. More maturity is expected. .


What do you think this forum is about? For most of us it is about debating Indian sport issues. This debate is about as meaningful an issue as there is in Indian sports right now. Anyway let us know what you would like to discuss about and note that the rest of your post about being a shill for Mahesh's MxD greatness. :D

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Re: The olympics team pairing thread

Postby rajorshi » Fri Jun 29, 2012 8:09 pm

Believe me, I was actually expecting you or Prasen uncle to be the 1st ones to comment on this! Thank you :D but I am no shill. So relax! Its for those who wana see the facts. Anyway lets leave it for another day. 5th set on between Roger and Benneteau!

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Re: The olympics team pairing thread

Postby 10nis_ace » Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:09 pm

They may be sentimental but they reached 4 finals, winning 2 of them so they did not stick together for nothing. Paes does well with serve-and-volley women players and thats why his other titles came with Raymond and Black. He does not have any other noteworthy mixed doubles partnerships.


Well said.

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Re: The olympics team pairing thread

Postby murukan » Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:20 pm

PKBasu wrote:LP stuck to his partnership with Martina out of respect and sentiment, otherwise he would have had many more MxD titles.


That seems a rather fanciful claim. Contrary to your portrayal, Navratilova enjoyed success in WD and MxD even after after her partnership with Paes. Martina's last GS title did not come with Leander, but with Bob Bryan at Flushing Meadows in 2006.

The dispute this time was primarily about Men's Doubles. No matter how you cut it, Leander is much the better Men's Doubles player.


I'm not sure how one reaches the conclusion that Leander is "much" the better Men's Doubles player than Mahesh. If that's the case, why did Bhupathi have MORE Men's Doubles titles than Paes until this year? One would probably have to give Leander the nod by virtue of his 7 MD doubles to Mahesh's 4, but even in this respect the two would be neck-and-neck had Mark Knowles not choked in two grand slam finals. Personally, I view the two players as equal. Mahesh is the more well-rounded player and by far the better returner, whereas Leander is almost without peer at the net.


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