Hockey World League (Men's and Women's)

A forum to discuss Indian hockey and the disarray it is in despite the promising new professional PHL series.

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Re: Hockey World League (Men's and Women's)

Postby Mugundan » Tue Dec 08, 2015 5:04 pm

PKBasu wrote:
jayakris wrote:Congratulations INDIA!!! Finally we get a real medal in a real world event in hockey. Wow. Jay


It has to be a big deal when Jay comes out of hibernation :-) . We miss you Jay!

I second that PKB!

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Re: Hockey World League (Men's and Women's)

Postby arjun2761 » Tue Dec 08, 2015 5:54 pm

Great observations on the Indian team and on some of the players in the team. SInce I don't watch too many of the games (other than the highlights on FIH website), would be interested in comments on the following:

1. Replacing some of the older non-performing players with younger promising players. We regularly see in the professional leagues in the US (NFL, NBA etc.) in athletic sports that highly talented players make their mark at the senior level 1-3 years after they start when they generally outperform mediocre older players. Of course, the juniors in the US are exposed to modern training methods since their junior days are probably more ready to perform at senior levels than Indians might be. That said, it seems that we should include the juniors in our national camps earlier rather than later so that they get exposed to better training and with some "A" team tours or the like, give them enough exposure so that the "experienced" non-performers are replaced more easily. Other wise, the "experienced" non-performers are preventing the potential performers from getting the experience they need to contribute earlier rather than later in athletic sports where youth is generally an asset.

2. See that most folks want Rupinder Pal SIngh replaced. However, his PC conversion rate seems pretty phenomenal (seemingly one of the best in the world) and given how important PCs are to scoring goals, should we not use him better? That is, perhaps find a way to keep him on the field in the mid-field and train our forwards to earn more PCs rather than always shooting for goals or deflections from difficult angles?

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Re: Hockey World League (Men's and Women's)

Postby sameerph » Wed Dec 09, 2015 4:53 am

You are right, Arjun in respect of Rupinder Pal although I have not really checked his career conversion rate as opposed to other good PC specialists. Raghunath is also pretty good in PC conversion. However, they make so many mistakes in defense which result in PC/goals for the opponents that the effect is almost nullified. Earlier Sandeep Singh was a similar player, perhaps worse in defense. Can't we get a player who is good both in PC conversion and defense ? I have not seen Harmanpreet from junior team play. He seems very good at PC conversion, not sure if he is good in defense too. SSP will be in a better position to comment on that.

I agree on your point on even top juniors taking time to settle at senior level. Therefore, it may now be too late to blood any junior players into the senior teams for Rio Olympics. We may have to depend on current lot making some changes here and there and try to get back the likes of Gurbaz,Nikin and Lalit.

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Re: Hockey World League (Men's and Women's)

Postby prasen9 » Wed Dec 09, 2015 6:05 am

Can he be trained to be a forward? Or an attacking mid-fielder?

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Re: Hockey World League (Men's and Women's)

Postby sameerph » Wed Dec 09, 2015 6:22 am

I think midfielder is possible, forward may not be possible at this stage. Same may be true of Raghunath.

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Re: Hockey World League (Men's and Women's)

Postby ssp » Wed Dec 09, 2015 7:04 pm

Rupinder Pal can have an unbelievable game one day and then have 2-3 shocking ones. Van Ass tried him in midfield but he looked really uncomfortable. Raghunath can play in midfield and if he has to stay in the team, that's where I'd play him. Problem with Rupinder Pal is his inability to change direction quickly because of his height. He also goes on suicidal dribbles when he has no cover behind him.

Harmanpreet is an excellent player already. I think he is ready for the senior team. He has speed, passing ability and lovely ball control. He can play in a number of positions, which is vital in modern hockey. Just look at the Aussies, Dutch, Germans etc. switch positions and excel everywhere.

Another guy who is ready for the senior team ( in my humble opinion) is Gurinder Singh. He was excellent in the last 2 HILs. He would be a huge asset in defence compared to Raghunath or Jasjit.

I think we should have a decent defence and midfield in the future, but I don't see any outstanding talents in attack.

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Re: Hockey World League (Men's and Women's)

Postby PKBasu » Thu Dec 10, 2015 12:28 am

Thanks, ssp, for those deep insights. It is wonderful to have such an avid current follower of Indian hockey in the forum.

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Re: Hockey World League (Men's and Women's)

Postby sameerph » Thu Dec 10, 2015 5:07 am

Thanks, SSP. So, Harmanpreet and Gurinder are the ones who should be drafted in the national team without any delay. I will be pleasantly surprised though if our selectors take this step. They will most probably retain Raghunath, Rupinder, Jasjeet or go back to earlier discarded players.

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Re: Hockey World League (Men's and Women's)

Postby ssp » Fri Dec 18, 2015 10:11 am

This is an excellent assessment of our recent performances:
http://stick2hockey.com/Article/The-Tri ... 12731.html
But what lets India down most is their inability to hold the defensive structure for the whole game and the top teams take advantage of this weakness much more easily than the lower-ranked teams. India’s current defenders are physically, technically and tactically not up to the top international level. But they alone can’t be blamed; the forwards and midfielders are guilty of often being found out of position, or getting beaten very easily, or giving away possession cheaply.


Couldn't have put it any better!

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Re: Hockey World League (Men's and Women's)

Postby prasen9 » Tue Dec 22, 2015 2:34 pm

I don't follow hockey that much as in I do not get to see it often. But, what little I have seen, I think what is lacking is clear, strategic thinking. When India is ahead and against lower-ranked teams, playing structured hockey is good. But, when we are down against the top teams especially by multiple goals, the only way possible would be to shake it up and attack. Mix it up with more free-flowing ad-hoc stuff so that the opponent is thrown off balance. You are losing anyway. A combination of these horses-for-courses policy can make the overall performance much better. But, at all times, you need solid play by the defenders.

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Re: Hockey World League (Men's and Women's)

Postby arjun2761 » Wed Dec 23, 2015 7:02 pm

I like the strategy above. The down side of the flamboyant style is that we may concede more goals and have a worse goal difference if the flamboyant offense doesn't click. Or, we could lose a game which we would otherwise win. The upside is that we may score more goals and win or tie a game when compared to playing the structured style. Therefore, based on the opponent and situation in a tournament, it may make sense to blend in the flamboyant style strategically.

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Re: Hockey World League (Men's and Women's)

Postby ssp » Thu Dec 24, 2015 12:26 am

When we are 2-3 goals down against the top 5 teams, there is usually no way back. We can't fight back in any way-structured or otherwise- because we just can't get hold of the ball. These teams know how to kill a game and we are willing participants in our downfall by gifting the ball back with idiotic passes or woeful trapping. Essentially, when you don't have the ball, you can't play any style (mad Indian attacking or structured).

On the other hand, we haven't learned how to close out games when leading by 1-2 goals. This is when we want our team to be totally ant-Indian. Just keep the ball, pass it around and frustrate the hell out of the opposition. We tend to do the exact opposite of what is required. :-(

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Re: Hockey World League (Men's and Women's)

Postby srini » Sat Dec 26, 2015 4:21 am

ssp wrote:When we are 2-3 goals down against the top 5 teams, there is usually no way back. (

In the bronze medal match against Netherlands, we were down 0-2 in 2nd quarter, but even went on to lead 5-3 four mins from finish but could not hold on to that 2 goal lead in last 4 mins and the game went on to shoot out.
So yeah, if we still carry a habbit into olympics, thats is not holding on to any lead.

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Re: Hockey World League (Men's and Women's)

Postby jaydeep » Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:20 pm

The FIH has confirmed the final line-ups for the men's Hockey World League Semi-Finals.

So between June 15 and 25 in London, these teams will participate -
Olympic gold medallists Argentina, reigning European champions Netherlands, Asian champions India, Pakistan, Korea, England, Canada, Malaysia, China and Scotland

And in Johannesburg, South Africa between July 8 and 23 -
Reigning Hockey World Cup, World League and Champions Trophy winners Australia, Olympic silver medallists Belgium, Olympic bronze medallists Germany, New Zealand, Spain, South Africa, Ireland, Japan, France and Egypt

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Re: Hockey World League (Men's and Women's)

Postby ssp » Thu May 18, 2017 9:40 am

Here's the team for the European tour and HWL semi final:

Goalkeepers
1. Akash Chikte 2. Vikas Dahiya

Defenders
3. Pardeep Mor 4. Kothajit Singh 5. Surender Kumar 6. Rupinderpal Singh 7. Harmanpreet Singh

Midfielders
8. Chinglensana Singh Kangujam – Vice Captain 9. S.K. Uthappa 10. Satbir Singh 11. Sardar Singh 12. Manpreet Singh – Captain 13. Harjeet Singh

Forwards
14. Ramandeep Singh 15. SV Sunil 16. Talwinder Singh 17. Mandeep Singh 18. Akashdeep Singh

Back to selecting at least 5 weaklings. I've counted 6 who will have trouble stopping or passing the ball as well as losing possession at least 80% of the time-Uthappa,Satbir, Ramandeep, Mandeep, Akashdeep & Talwinder. Sunil was at these guys level at the Azlan Shah Cup a few weeks ago as well.

Sumit was one of our best players in the Azlan Shah tournament, but is dropped in favour of Uthappa!! Why? Manpreet (jnr) didn't have a great outing, but he is still a stronger player than Satbir. The front line is just awful. I predicted after the Malaysia loss at the Azlan Shah Cup that Affan would be dropped, yet the real culprits- Mandeep, Akashdeep and Talwinder would remain. Crazy thinking....but standard for our selectors :damn:


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